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India Interest Group Digest Mon, 14 Mar 94       Volume 2: Issue 489

Today's Topics:

Culture:
      Karnataka and the Kannadiga

Economics/Development::
      Cultural factors and development
      Earthquake-sight seeing
      ISO 900* certificates - Available in plenty

Entertainment::
      Another list-Good movies
      Movie review

FYI::
      Job Opening
      Message for Vandita: Reg. Email addr in Lucknow
      Reg. Small Claims Court Query
      Sending money to India
      Telugu Conference at San Jose California, July 2,3 1994

Immigration::
      GC process time in Bay Area
      Greencard holder's stay away from U.S.
      H-1B Visa
      Need information regarding travel to Mexico
      Reg. Bill S618

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                                Culture
                                =======

Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 12:11:36 -0500
From: chetan@vp1.med.harvard.edu (Chaitanya Hiremath)
Subject: Karnataka and the Kannadiga

Hello,
        The recent dicussion on the "Karnataka and the Kannadiga"
prompts me to write this.

        It is very aptly said :
                Live like a Roman in Rome.

        When one dwells amongst people and culture even slightly
different from your own, it is always a good feeling to
learn more about the people, their food habits, their culture, etc.
It is also an asset to learn their language as much as possible,
if one plans of spend several years with the new neighbours.
I know of people who pick up a new language in no time.
Now the question arises, do you just neglect and donot bother
to attempt managing in the local language if it is not a nessecity.
I have always found a SPARKLE in the face of the person even
if you just say a word in his or her language. I am sure, you have
too. If you havn't, just try sometimes and look for a SPARKLE.

        I am from Belgaum and my mother tongue is Kannada. But I am at home
both with Kannada and Marathi. I donot have any prejudice against
any of our Indian languages, in fact, I know five Indian languages
including Hindi. But one thing has always puzzled me and would like to
share it with you  all. How is it if every Kannadiga knows Marathi
in Belgaum, some folks who have spent 50-60 years in the same place
donot know more a few words  and can hardly understand, leave aside
speak Kannada? Similar situation in Bangalore. I console myself and
am sure most of you will agree that :

        People of Karnataka are truely hospitable and nice ;
should be looked up to their great quality of, not
belittling any other language, which is worth assimilating.

        I am positive that there are people from other Indian states too
with their magnanimity contributing to the rich culture of India.

        Thank you for your kind words,
        Chaitanya

------------------------------

                                Economics/Development
                                =====================

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 17:10:49 -0700
From: tghosh@cadesm38.eng.utah.edu (T Ghosh)
Subject: Cultural factors and development

A few weeks ago Survjeit Varshney had posted an article in which he tried to
prove that Bengal's poor socio-economic condition was caused by the existence
of a pseudo-intellectual elite. While most of his subsequent points were either
irrelevant or factually incorrect, there is, perhaps, a very large grain of
truth in the more fundamental statement that the ability of a community to
"develop" is dependent upon its cultural characteristics.

Cultural properties are intangible, nevertheless, many experts feel that the
economic success of the Asian Tigers can be traced to cultural values of their
societies. In the same manner, we may perhaps also find cultural
characteristics in Indian society which are extremely *unfavourable* towards
"development".

It appears that there is a fundamental lack of trust in the idea that
science-based technology can solve real-world problems; we do not believe that
science describes the real world. There is no shortage of intelligent and
knowledgeable engineers and physicians; yet it would be difficult to find a
single economically useful machine or treatment which we have devised.  We
successfully managed to convert science into an abstract body of knowledge
which has no relation to the real world, thus preserving our cultural
characteristic of respect for "learning".

It is ironical that Western society has developed technology to the point where
abstract thought can directly yield economic returns (as in computer science).
They now have a requirement for people who have such skills and many of us are
filling this Western need.

The unfortunate fact is that the real mastering of technology enables a society
to seize the economic high ground, with devastating effects upon societies
which have been unable to do so. Consider the hypothetical effects of a
biotechnology revolution if it occurs in the West. We would have to pay these
firms for their patented genetically engineered seeds and their
bio-pharmaceuticals. What is worse is that it would destroy the livelihood of
millions in our rural areas by devalueing food .

I make the distinction between "science-based technology" and "traditional
technology". The example I can think of is the difference between a
refrigerator and a earthern ghara -- both of which serve to store and cool
water. There are a number of honourable exceptions.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 13:51:40 +0200 (WET)
From: Yashpal Agrawal <yagrawal@messi.uku.fi>
Subject: Earthquake-sight seeing

Dear netters,
There has been some criticism regarding the visit by Indian officials to LA
for "sight-seeing".
1. If the Indian officials are not given this facility, how will they know how
to manage effectively in any future earthquake ?. Will we not criticise them
for their failures/inefficiency in any future earthquake ?
2. While US experts can visit India for talks etc,there are many kinds of
equipment that can only be seen here in the US.(e.g. large cranes, bulldozers
etc).
3. It is also good to remember that most of us who are in the US, have studied
in India at the tax-payers expense. Many of us also visit the US on money
supplied by charities and then never return to India. Thus the argument for
using "charity" money does not hold.

And as long as they learn something useful, whats wrong in sight-seeing ??

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 94 08:40:16 LCL
From: $CMSS47@hpccmvs1.corp.hp.com
Subject: ISO 900* certificates - Available in plenty

Hi friends,
      The 'in-thing' in Indian industry now-a-days is obtaining an ISO
900* certification. I was browsing thru issues of Dataquest, Business India
and I was amazed at the speed by which Bureau Veritas Quality International
(BVQI) awards ISO 900* certificates to Indian companies.

      May be , I am ill-informed about the process of awarding of this
certficate, but to my knowledge and experience, QUALITY  ultimately
results in a profitable concern.  Surprisingly, Public sectors which are
panting for a take-over by the government/private sector have been awarded
this certificate. I was told that the certification is based on the adherence
of the PROCESSES used in the industry under review to specified quality
standards. I just wonder whether there is a check on whether the processes
(which are perfect per-se) are being put to use and reflect on the actual
product / services delivered to the market and also its stand with the rest
of the competitors in the same field. Also, the period of study to award this
certificate is extremely shady ( 7 days in case of Infosys technologies ).
I am sure that the companies can put on a fake-show in case they are given
prior notice of the day of inspection by the Bureau executives. What about
the period of renewal of this certificate ?

      Somehow, there is a lurky feeling that this whole thing is a hoax. I
have worked in a public sector for 4 years in Bangalore; the processes are
PERFECT as if you were reading a 'Time and Motion study' journal by BARNES -
but adherence and execution - a big ZERO. As a management trainee , I tried
to put the processes in place but was discouraged by the employees / workers
with their all prevalent golden-words ' Saar, it does not work here ...'.
So, I stopped working there !!  Discussions would enlighten me.

     I find BEML,BHEL,HMT which are the pillars of in-efficiency being awarded
certificate ! God help us !!!

Thanks,
Murli

------------------------------

                                Entertainment
                                =============

Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 14:51:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Dhaval Shah <dhaval@npg-sd.scrippsranchca.NCR.COM>
Subject: Another list-Good movies

Another list of good hindi movies...
 (1) Entertaining movies (Story + Violence + Songs) :
        Daddy, Baiju Baawara, Trishul, Talash, Karz, Dil ek mandir,
    Ye hi hai jindagi, Waqt, Ye wada raha, Me azaad hun,Mukti,
    Devata,Farz,Dhanwan (Rajesh Khanna), Avtaar, Intakaam,
    ham kisi se kam nahi, Sargam, Himalay ki gaud me, Hariyali aur
    rasta, Kaalicharan,Vishwanath, Jyoti bane jwala, Karmyogi,
    Bulandi, Das nambari, Geet gaya paththaro ne, Navrang, Mother
    India, Mogul-e-aazam,Anarkali,Akhiyon ke zarokho se, Kora kagaz,
    Aaitbaar, Saagar, Pratighat, Siyahi, Insaaf ka tarazoo, Swati,
    Love in tokyo, Evening in Paris, Sharmilee, Mili
(2) Comedy :
        Victoria no. 203, Kisi se na kahena, Rangbirangi, Maalamal,
    Do jasoosh, Biwi o biwi, Half ticket, Shreeman Shrimati,Namak
    Halal, Rafu-chakkar, Mayor saheb,Ham paanch,Baap ek nambari beta
    das nambari,Anubhav,
(3) Art :
    Khandhar, party, Maisi saheb, Manthan, Bazaar,

My old list was :
    Sadma,Abhimaan,Anand,Badalate Rishte,Namak Haram,Koshish,Basera,
    Khilona,Masoom,Ankahee,Jawaab,Janam
    Jaane bhi do yaro,Chasme baddoor,Padosan,Angoor,Bombay to Goa,
    Golmaal,Shaukin,Chupke chupke, Pushpak, Chalati ka naam gadi,
    Khamosh,Shart,Gumnaam,Kab kyun aur kahan,Jewel Thief,
    Sparsha,Mrigaya,Aakrosh,Mohan Joshi Hajir ho,Damul,Kamala, Artha,
    Mandi,Saaransha
    Aaj ki aawaz,Andha yudha,Ankush, Parinda, Ardha Satya,

Enjoy these movies!!!
Dhaval Shah

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 13:52:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "G. Soni" <u9307623@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Movie review

MOVIE: Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa
STARRING: Shahrukh Khan, Suchitra Krishnamoorty, Deepak Tijori,
Naseeruddin Shah, etc...
MUSIC: Jatin-Lalit
DIRECTION: Kundan Shah

                  Hello fellow brothers! You know, I've been seeing songs
of this movie, since last summer, when i was in India- on a cable tele.
channel, ZEE T.V. And i must say, right from then i've waited so
impatiently for this movie's release, especially since there's Shahrukh
Khan in it! And trust me fellas, it was worth the wait. This movie is
GOOD, infact, SIMPLY SUPERB.
                  You people might not know who the director is- Kundan
Shah- the director of an 1980's comedy super-hit movie, JAANE BHI DO
YAARON. This movie was totally hilarious, from beginning to end. But
Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa is a sorta romantic comedy, revolving around the
central character- Sunil(Shahrukh), who is in that age, when one is just
trying to get through  university, get a job... and then, amidst all
that anxiety and confusion, a girl comes into his life-Anna(Suchitra). By
the way, this Suchitra Krishnamoorty is a newcomer, but has been on
advertisements on Indian Television.
                Shahrukh falls in love, and the things that follow in
this movie, are so real, i'm sure, a lot of people- not only of that age,
but even older people, remeniscing their past- can identify with this
character, so finely played by Shahrukh Khan.
                without giving anymore of the story away, i just want to
comment on the newcomer- Suchitra- she was exceptionally sweet in this
movie, a fine job in this debut! She looks radiant, pretty all through
the movie, carrying herself really well. And Shahrukh Khan was simply
marvellous- no other actor could have done justice to the role.
              As far as the music goes, I have one thing to say people-
BUY THIS TAPE, OR YOU'RE MISSING SOMETHING REAL GOOD! Jatin-Lalit(duo)
have done it again- the music is simply amazing, especially the songs,
"Aye Kaash Ke hum...," "Anna Mere Pyar Ko...," Woh To Hai Albela...."
             And a Final Comment: think about the title, and what i've
said about the story... you'll know what it's all about. But this one is
a must see.
Final Rating: worth $1.40, out of $1.50(my vcr is all smiles today)
Music: 9/10.
Comments: SEE IT.

------------------------------

                                FYI
                                ===

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 11:04:08 -0500 (EST)
From: pankaj@nashua.hp.com (Pankaj Shah)
Subject: Job Opening

Hi!
Globe Tech, Inc. is a software development and contracting
company located in Nashua, NH.

We are currently looking for software engineers
with the following experience:

1. X.400, X.500
2. SNMP
3. Data Communications 2+ years
4. MS Windows
5. Powerhouse
6. Sybase

If you have ANY of the above experience, please
fax/mail your resume to

Globe Tech, Inc.
105 Spit Brook Rd, #4B
Nashua, NH 03062
Fax: (603) 891-0122
Phone : (603) 888-3967

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 14:32:01 -1000 (GMT-10:00)
From: Kuldeep Kumar <kumark@kowande.Bond.edu.au>
Subject: Message for Vandita: Reg. Email addr in Lucknow

Message for Vandita:
CDRI, Lucknow has e-mail. Address is root%cdrilksirnetd.ernet.in

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:29:01 -0800 (PST)
From: ebpeders@okanagan.bc.ca (Erik B. Pedersen)
Subject: Reg. Small Claims Court Query

Jai Rawat <jai@lsil.com> inquired about small claims procedures. The
rules and maximum amount collectible will probably vary depending upon
the state or province in which you live. Here in British Columbia, the
maximum amount for which you can seek redress is $2,000. The main rule
is that no lawyers are permitted. Aggrieved party serves papers on
the person or company who owes him money; both parties appear in court
with as many relevant documents as possible, and the judge renders
a final decision which cannot be appealed. With judgment in hand, you
can attach any assets that you can locate (bank account, car, etc.)
to satisfy the judgment. The government publishes a series of pamphlets
to help you through the process, whether you are suing or being sued.

Best wishes, Erik Pedersen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 16:08:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: ved@cis.ksu.edu (VEDANANDA V V)
Subject: Sending money to India

        FTP to 129.97.140.10 (plg.uwaterloo.ca).  Login as anonymous,
        and use your userid as the password.  Then change directory
        ("cd") to /pub/AIN, and ls.
        Obtain the file Send_Money_To_India.

        P.S. FTP services are not available
             weekdays from 9 am until 5 pm, Eastern Standard Time

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 10:18:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "rajainder a. yeldandi" <RAYSUJRD@STLVM14.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Telugu Conference at San Jose California, July 2,3 1994

American Telugu Association (ATA) is hosting Telugu Conference during
July 2 & 3 1994 in the San Fransico Bay at the San Jose Civic Auditorium.
These two plesurable two days will be fantastic opportunity for vacationers.
The two days will be Star Studded with famous actress Vijaya Shanti, well
known US educated Hero Venkatesh, Bala Subramanyam, Jandhyala/Shandilya
group, Vempati Chinna Sathyam troup and well  known national artists.
There are plenty of activities for youth because Youth commitee is organizing
their own programs on their own adjacent stage (picnic is included).
If you have not received any flyers by now, you can call Mr. I. K. Reddy
at (408) 255-3762 or you can send email to my id.  I am the coordinator for
youth activities.

Rajainder Yeldandi

------------------------------

                                Immigration
                                ===========

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 11:54:48 -0800 (PST)
From: aparikh@orchid.stjude.org (A Parikh)
Subject: GC process time in Bay Area

Hi !
Can anyone give me how much time it takes to process GC from
start to finish i.e from labour to INS in bay area for masters.
Also anyone discuss out their case(experience,suggestion)
who recently passed through this process. It will be a great help
for me.

Pl. email at aparikh@orchid.Tymnet.COM

Thanks in Advance
Atul Parikh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 12:49:17 -0500 (EST)
From: chandramouli@sgi.siemens.com
Subject: Greencard holder's stay away from U.S.

I would like to know what the rules are for a green card holder to be away from
U.S. I have heard it is a year. Is there a way to extend it if the green card
holder is already away from U.S. (in this case India). I have heard about a one
time permission where one can get permission to be away for 2 years. Can this
permission be gotten if the person is already in India. I am hoping that
someone who has had prior experience with this sort of stuff or who
knows this stuff well would help me out on this. Also, any pointers to
where I can go for more information will be extremely helpful. Thanks.

B Chandramouli

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 15:29:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Pankaj Lahoti <LAHOTI@pentastar.com>
Subject: H-1B Visa

Dear Netters,
I am planning to go to El Paso Mexico for H-1B multiple entry visa, and
want to know the possiblities of getting visa. In case the visa is rejected,
will I be able to come back to USA without any problem?

I came here in Dec 92 with 6 months B1 multiple entry visa without any
annotations. My I-94 expired in June 93. My H1 petition was approved by
INS in March 93 and my family got H4 multiple entry visa for 3 years from
US Embassy New Delhi in April 93, and joined me here in May 93.

What are the possible documents required by US consulate, Mexico to grant
H-1B visa? What are the possible questions asked by them? Any recent
experience will be more helpful. Please send your replies to my e-mail
address.

Thanks in advance.
Pankaj Lahoti

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 17:04:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Sunondo Ghosh <ghosh@cs.pitt.edu>
Subject: Need information regarding travel to Mexico

I will be travelling to Mexico in April and need some information
regarding the trip. Do Indian citizens need a visa to travel to
Mexico? If yes, what is the easiest way to get it?

Any help will be appreciated.
Sunondo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 10:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Sanjeev Bhatia <0004989596@mcimail.com>
Subject: Reg. Bill S618

BILL S618: Allowing PR spouse to come on visitor/student visa.

I talk to Sen. Kennedy's office (CO-SPONSOR of the bill) and did not get very
incouraging news. At this time, there's not enough support or interest in the
committee to push the bill to the Senate floor for full debate. I urge all of
you to call your state Senator to express your views and concerns. I was even
more surprised to find out that the senator's office from my state (VA - Sen.
Warner) wasn't even aware of the bill. To get the ball rolling pick up the phone
and make this very important call. If possible, bring in discussion groups from
other countries, your local Indian associations, in the process of this
important calling campaign.

Some phone numbers of influential members of the Senate:

Sen. Kennedy:   (202) 224-4543 (CO-SPONSOR)
Sen. Simpson:   (202) 224-3424
Sen. Simon:     (202) 224-5573 (SUPPORTS this bill)

------------------------------

End of India Interest Group Digest
**********************************