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India Interest Group Digest Mon, 14 Mar 94       Volume 2: Issue 490

Today's Topics:

Info. Wanted::
      Access to Internet
      Info. about calling to India
      Info on women's health, AIDS,India
      Insurance for visitors

Miscellaneous::
      Eid Greetings
      Indian Restaurants
      In response to "Is my history right? "
      Our Friend Is Waiting For Me
      Regarding Intel's Matching Grant
      Thanks for info on arthiritis

Mythology::
      Kans
      Reg. Keshava

Politics::
      Another WH/Clinton Letter on Punjab!
      Blowback: Poisonous Fallout from Afghanistan
      Cancer of Appeasement and the Pan-Islamic Collaborators
      Kashmir Resolution
      Pakistani mind and its ambition, Part 1/2
      Reg. response to Neepa Mazumdar
      Translation of Vande Matram

Social Issues::
      India: A Million Mutinies

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

                                Info. Wanted
                                ============

Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 16:26:14 -0500
From: joshi@Kodak.COM (Makarand (Raj) Joshi)
Subject: Access to Internet

I will be losing my connection to internet thru my employer in two weeks. I
would still like to receive the news and the digest. What are my options ? I
have an old PC (XT) at home with 9600 baud modem. I also have a program which
can emulate VT100, 220 etc. The people I consulted told me of many
possibilities but nobody knew the exact details. I have seen contributions to
digest from COMPUSERV users. How expensive is it ? What about FIDONET thru
local BBS ? I would appreciate any help in this matter. Please send your
replies directly to me (joshi@kodak.com) or you can post on the net if you
think it will be of general interest. Please hurry as I won't get it after two
weeks.

Thank you.
Raj

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 17:45:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Hsraj@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu
Subject: Info. about calling to India

Hello!
I am staying on the campus at OSU, and here we are not allowed to choose our
own long distance carrier, so if I have to call India I use my calling card
This works out very expensive, 1.75/min and 3.50 for the first minute.  I would
like to save on my tel. bills, so if any of you have any bright ideas please
send it to me.  I also saw an ad in India Abroad which advertised that one
could call India for $0.98/min., this was advertised by an agency called
Sybanet.  If anybody else is dealing with them please tell me if this ad is
reliable or not. You can reach me at hsraj@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu
Thanx in advance,
Rajesh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 12:12:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Nilesh Chatterjee <NCHATT2@UMBC2.UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Info on women's health, AIDS,India

Dear Editor:
I am shaping a proposal for a major research project in India (western
region,possibly Maharashtra) that aims to look at how women perceive their
own health status. We will be zeroing in through the issue of HIV infection/
AIDS.
We will also be looking at attitudes to reproduction, contraception and
marriage. We would appreciate any help you could render in this regard such
as references on health or status of women in India. Any current research
on women in India.
Any other researchers working in related fields or even references from
recent articles in the media. (researchers from the US, India or elsewhere)
if you are interested we could mail an abstract of our work
Kindly send information on work/people in the US or India to:
E Mail: IN%"NCHATT2@UMBC2.UMBC.EDU"
Tel :   (410) 5360973 (<11am >9.30pm) and (410) 455 2089 (>2 pm & < 6 pm)
Ask for:  Dr. Nilesh S Chatterjee
Thank you and I hope you will excuse any typing errors. I am not very good at
this.
Sincerely.......Nilesh.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 08:39:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: JK <JKHANNA@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU>
Subject: Insurance for visitors

Dear Netters,
        I URGENTLY need information on an insurance plan for visitors.  I am
considering GATEWAY USA issued by SEABURY & SMITH in Washington D.C.  I would
like to know if anyone has bought insurance from them and what their experience
has been.  I will appreciate if you could send a direct mail to me since I need
this information urgently.

        email address:  JKHANNA@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU

Thanks.
Jyoti

------------------------------

                                Miscellaneous
                                =============

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 08:44 -0500 (EST)
From: MRAHMAN <MRAHMAN+aTPAKDNV%Teepak@mcimail.com>
Subject: Eid Greetings

EID MUBARAK (GREETINGS) TO ALL!
Let us hope and pray for unity and friendship among all Indians and
beyond the national boundaries.

Regards,
M. Rahman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:12:46 -0600
From: ymud@aadt.com
Subject: Indian Restaurants

Dear netters,
How come it is that Chinese Restaurants offer all kinds of good deals on
meals such as Lunch Specials, Combo Dinners etc, while our Indian ones
do not? I don't think that I've ever seen an Indian restaurant that offers
curry with rice for $4.00 during lunch, but this is very common with other
Oriental restaurants. Is it because our food contains strange exotic and
expensive food stuff?? I don't think so! It probably is due to the fact that
our average Indian restaurant owner is a money-grabbing crook who preys upon
the strong links of the Indian community to their ethnic food. However
competition drives the prices down, as can be seen in Devon Street, Chicago,
where you can get an excellent comprehensive lunch buffet for less than 6
bucks.

Note that my complaint is only against the full-scale upbeat Indian
RESTAURANTS and not the umpteen fast food joints that seem to be springing
up lately.

There is an attractive alternative in the form of instant pre-packaged curries.
I have tried a few of these, and found it comparable to the fresher version.
Any more input??

Y. Mudra

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 16:07:09 +0530 (IST)
From: rri!ramach@rri.ernet.in (R.Ramachandran)
Subject: In response to "Is my history right? "

Hello friends, this is in response to Mr. Sharath's posting on a temple
in Bangladesh. Actually, his doubt is very reasonable. If I recollect
our history, Zahir Ad-Din Muhammad Babur was born in 1483 AD. His first
victory was over Kabul in 1504. Then, in the year of 1526 AD, he defeated
Ibrahim Lodi, the Sultan of Delhi. This war is called the first Panipat
war. He died in 1530 AD. Thne second Panipat war was in 1556 AD.

Therefore, in 1452 AD, the Mughal empire did not exist in India. Only
the Delhi sultanate was there. If the historian claims that the temple
was built by the help of some architects of Delhi mughal kings, then his claim
is wrong. May be, it was built with the help of Delhi Sultans. I do not know.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 15:12:44 +0100
From: Popowicz Alison <popowicz@sappey.grenoble.hp.com>
Subject: Our Friend Is Waiting For Me

Our friend is waiting for me
and I must hurry home!

Believe me, there's nothing that
I'd love more than to chat with you!
But Our Friend is waiting for me
and I must get back home!

Honestly, I can't tell you how pleased
I am to see you after all this time!
It's just that Our Friend is waiting for me
and I've already kept him waiting too long!

No, I'd love to, but I can't come right now!
Yes, I promise, I'll come and see you soon!
Believe me, there's nothing I'd like better,
but Our Friend is waiting for me and I must dash!

Most of our daily lives are used up in such
conversations between our head and our heart.
In this world, we will never get home to Our Friend,
unless we first become blind and deaf and dumb!

by Mirek

(Information about Mirek's book from:
 Ann Conlon at "Sheriar Press"  telephone  803-448-1106
 or from Alison)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:17 -0800 (PST)
From: gna@vardhan.intel.com
Subject: Regarding Intel's Matching Grant

Hi Friends
        This posting is targeted in particularly to all the Intel
        Emplpoyees who are also members of the India Digest and who
        would also like to contribute to the upkeep of India Digest
        through supporting a assistantship to a student in Bowling
        University.

        My suggestion is all of us pool our money together and donate
        it as a single lumpsum to the cause. There by we reduce the paper
        work, processing time and money for both Intel and to the University
        people. Imagine doing paper work for every $10!

        I am prepared to coordinate the effort. If you have already sent
        in your cheque (like me) just let me know the amount you have sent.
        The donation has to go in a individual's name but I shall enclose
        the name and email address of all the contributors so that Digest/
        University will respond to them individually as need be. I am assuming
        the Digest/University will also agree on this arrangement.
regards
anand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 09:51:46 -0500
From: takle@ncat.edu (Anirudha Manohar Takle)
Subject: Thanks for info on arthiritis

         I had asked for some info on arthiritis on the net and I
         would just like to thank all the people who forwarded me
         the info from the bottom of my heart.I also got requests
         from other people who are also interested in this info
         so I will be forwarding the info to them.
                      Thanks once again.
                                 Anirudha . M . Takle.

------------------------------

                                Mythology
                                =========

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 21:15:49 +0100 (MET)
From: GAURI WAGENAAR_PARIKH <PARIKH@rullet.LeidenUniv.nl>
Subject: Kans

For Krishnan Ramanathan,
        The emissary sent by Kans was Akrur.
Regarding Kans' mother: All that my sources say is that Kans was
a reincarnation of the Asur Kalnemi. However, the Bhagvat Puran,
mentions, that Kans was not exactly the son of Ugrasen. A wife of
Ugrasen was once raped in her garden by the Gandharv Dramil. And
the son born thereof, was Kans. The name of the wife is not
mentioned.

For future reference there is a new book out on the market.
Allied Chambers Transliterated Hindi - Hindi - English
Dictionary, published by and to be ordered from:
        Allied Publishers Ltd. New Delhi
        ISBN 81-86062-10-6

Besides the dictionary it has an expanded glossary of
Mythological names and places. Very interesting and informative.
I hope you enjoy browsing through it.

Sangeeta Parikh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 13:41:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Ajaya Durg <Ajaya_Durg@ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Reg. Keshava

> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 11:17:35 +0000 (GMT)
> From: krishnan@bellevue.cnrs-bellevue.fr (KRISHNAN Ramanathan)
> Subject: Kesava
>
> Another question:
> what is the name of the emissary sent by Kamsa to bring Krishna to
> Mathura? What was his mother's name?

I think the person was Akrura, son of Devahuti (?)

Ajaya

------------------------------

                                Politics
                                ========

Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 19:47:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Amir Tuteja <mini@access.digex.net>
Subject: Another WH/Clinton Letter on Punjab!

December 30, 1993, Dear Mr. President:
        You recently received a letter from members of Congress who are
extremely concerned over the desperate situation facing Sikhs in
India.  I am writing to add my voice to those in Congress who are
calling for an active diplomatic effort by your administration, to
help bring an end to the brutal oppression of the Sikhs by the
Indian government in Punjab, Khalistan.
        As you know, in recent years there have been countless reports of
human rights violations in India. This includes the killing of over
110,000 Sikhs by Indian security forces and other agents of the
Indian government since 1984, and the jailing of 70,000 more Sikhs
who have not been tried or even charged with any crime. Many of
these people are still being detained under horrific conditions
without any idea why they are being held.  Such a blatant disregard
by the Indian government for internationally-recognized human
rights must not be tolerated.
        Therefore, I respectfully urge you to vigorously pursue every
diplomatic option available to bring about a peaceful resolution of
this matter.  The Sikhs have a right to peacefully exist in India,
and their ability to do so depends on your leadership and the
efforts of the United States government.  I look forward to
actively supporting your efforts in this matter.
        (Signed), Peter Blute, Member of Congress

THE WHITE HOUSE, Washington, February 2, 1994
Dear Representative Blute:
        Thank you for recent letter on the Sikhs in India.
        The treatment of Sikhs is is one of the important human rights
issues on our agenda with India. We have worked hard to convey our
views to New Delhi, and believe there has been some important
progress in the last eighteen months.  A series of elections with
increasingly voter turnout have restored local self-government in
Punjab; the level of violence has declined, and the government is
actively considering ways to end police abuse.  We will continue to
press for further measures to improve the overall human rights
situation in India for everyone, including the Sikhs.
        Thank you for letting me know your concerns.  I appreciate your
support on this important issue.
        Sincerely, (Signature of Bill Clinton")
[i am speechless folks  --  pp]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 18:29:05 -0600
From: Abhijit Dutta <abdutta@icaen.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Blowback: Poisonous Fallout from Afghanistan

In the NY Times Magazine of March 13 there is
an article titled "Blowback" on the situation
in Afghanistan involving Terrorism, narcotics,
and the dangers to the rest of the world including
the US and India. For example, Afghan Mujaheeds are
increasingly participating in the Kashmiri Terrorism,
four of the WTC suspects were trained by the CIA in
Afghanistan during the Afghan war,
roughly one-third of all heroin supply to the US
comes from the Afghan poppy fields.

...CIA has a word for this: blowback, a poisonous
fallout, borne by political winds, drifting back
home from a faraway battlefield.
    "It's quite a shock," says Charles G. Cogan,
the CIA's operations chief for the Near and South
Asia from 19798 to 1984. "The hypothesis that the
Mujahedeen would come to the United States and commit
terrorist actions did not enter into our universe of
thinking st the time. We weere totally preoccupied
with the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. It
is a significant unintended consequence."
    The point isn't lost on Abdul Haq (a moderate
mujahedeen leder). "After the collapse of the Soviets,
the biggest enemy of the US, what they hate the most
is drugs and terrorism, yes?" he says. "Afghanistan is
now the leader of the world in drugs and terrorism."...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 22:13:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Rajiv Varma <rvarma@csunix.jsums.edu>
Subject: Cancer of Appeasement and the Pan-Islamic Collaborators

Francois Gautier understands the slave mentality of the so called Indian elite
so well, that he puts the Kashmir problem in the right perspective (thanx to
Rajender for posting the article).  But there is another disease the very same
group of people carry with them, i.e. slavery of Mullahs, Kazis and the Imams.
They would give a leg and an arm to malign the valiant sons/daughters of Bharat.
The Iron man didn't give Hyderabad State and Junagadh to the Mullahs and he
became a "communalist". Maulana Nehru, who bartered away our divine mother, Maa
Bharati, to the Mullahs, became an embodiment of God of Secularism. More
recently, Mulayam "Softie" licks the boots of Mullahs, in order to get the
throne at Lucknow, he is hailed as a secular hero. It doesn't matter to the
mental slaves of Ghazni & Babur & Jinnah & Bukhari, that Mullah Softie goes
on with his malacious campaign of fueling caste carnages and committing
atrocities against the harijans. So what! As long as their Momin Masters are
happily sucking the blood of Maa Bharati, he will keep on emulating Gandhiji's
three monkeys. Similarly, they would call Bankim Chandra, one of the fathers
of Bengal Renaissance, whose poetry ignited the fire of Bharatiya Nationalism,
a "racist". When the Mullahs (and their illegitimate Hindu surrogates, viz.
Kuldip Nayar, Amitabh Bachchan and Co.) object to Vande Mataram, they aren't
doing anything but shoving the Pan-Islamic Agenda down the Nation's throat.
What else could be the reason? Do these surrogates of Mullahs know what Tagore,
Gandhi, Aurobindo, Vivekananda, Nazrul Islam, Badruddin Tayabji, Tilak, Patel,
Netaji used to say about that valiant son of Bharat, Bankim Chandra?
It is an affront to the sacrifices made by Chandrashekhar Azads, Bhagat Singhs,
and Ashfaqullah Khans, who had Vande Mataram on their lips when they gave death
a kiss, so that WE can be free one day. {It seems that some of us "learned (?)"
"secuuuuuuularist" ones are doing a good job of repaying that debt. -- HA!}
These days it is fashionable and chic to be ashamed of being anything which
might be even remotely connected to the glory of Bharat. It is so obvious that
any "self-respecting" traitor would refuse to sing Vande Mataram. But when they
say that refusal to sing Vandemataram would not in any way reflect their lack
of loyality to Bharat, it is nothing but having their cake and eating it too!!
[Incidentally, a couple of Maulanas from Deoband have contended in the Urdu
Press that Muslims in Bharat have nothing to worry about even if Pakistan
gobbles up Kashmir and Bangladeshi Muslim infiltrators manage to take dists
of Malda and Murshidabad plus some others in W.B., away from Bharat and merge
with Islamic State of Bangladesh. Among the reasons they cite are: (psuedo)
secular intelligentsia is everready to collaborate with Pan-Islamists to further
their agenda -- they control the opinion making and the government; commies are
always there to stab Bharat in the back; and Hindus are still under the
seductive influence of extremist pacifism of Buddha and Gandhi.] -- Rajiv Varma

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 04:44:03 +0700 (SST)
From: "S.Jagadish" <SF918168@AM.NTU.AC.SG>
Subject: Kashmir Resolution

This is with regard to our friends from across the border (sic!!) and their
attempts to focus world wide attention on the "human rights abuse" in
Kashmir,an integral part of India and where they have avsolutely no
business.They failed to do so at the U.N.Whenever we fail to get a job done we
always think of excuses or try to tone down our failure in getting the work
done.The same is the case here in the Pakistan resolution issue.They were never
going to win and they knew it very well.All they wanted was a chance for them
to say something on the world stage (which by past experience is very rare
indeed !).What better opportunity than passing a resolution ?So they go about
espousing the cause of the people in Kashmir and showing great concern for
their well being.Then they fail miserably in their bid to pass any
resolution.So what do they do ??They just shrug away the crushing defeat by
saying that all they wanted was to get the world's attention on "human rights
abuse" in Kashmir.They have the nerve to say that they had even succeeded in
doing so and that all the world is talking about it.All the world??Since when
did Pakistan begin to represent the entire world?Basically I think its just
letting off steam and trying to defend their defeat.All said and done I do
really sympathise with our friends from across the border (sic again !!) and
hope that the next time they wag their tails at the U.N or at any other
international arena,India will cut off their tails and they will have no more
excuses to offer.Kashmir was,is and will be an integral part of India forever
and when I say Kashmir I also refer to POK.Any takers for IOP ??

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 20:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Dinesh Agarwal <DXA4@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Pakistani mind and its ambition, Part 1/2

By Mr. D. N. Mishra in Observer, February 18, 1994
 The recent rejoinder to Mr KR Malkani's article, published in an English daily
in Islamabad, by one Tarik Jan of Rawalpindi reflects the malaise of Islam.
   A few lines from the same will explain the burden of his rejoinder: "Like
other Indians, he (Malkani) proceeds on the assumption that since before 1947,
present day Pakistan was part of British India, they (Pakistanis) must be at
least 75 per cent Indian. So keep reminding them of that. In this way, he
naively believes that Pakistanis will forget their Pakistani identity and one
day their submerged Indianism will surface. No sir, that will not happen in
Malkani's life or the lives of his children to come. All the time when Malkani'
s grandfather was alive, we ruled over present day India. Now, in Malkani's
time we continue to be sovereign. Why? Because our existence is the legacy of
our 1000 year rule over this part of the world. If Britain had not betrayed us,
we would still have ruled Malkani's India for the simple reason that in 1857
Britain took power from us (Muslims) and in 1947 it should have returned power
to us. That is the legal position."
"We Pakistanis also hear about this racial garbage a lot. I hope I don't offend
Malkani if I state the truth that in appearance, majority of the Pakistanis are
good-looking and fairer than the Indians. Our racial stock is mixed;we are
central Asians, Afghans, Arabs, Persians and Aryans. Even within Pakistani
people, we have five sub-groups: Pathan, Punjabi, Baluchi, SIndhi and Kashmiri"
   This is not a singular feeling of a Pakistani citizen. We in India often
come across this "ruler syndrome" in Muslim Press in India. They think that
Hindus are unfit to rule, that Muslims are natural rulers. They go on reminding
that they were the rulers of this subcontinent, that Britishers changed the
situation, that this was a humiliation in itself. To escape this intolerable
situation, they, wanted a separate state and got it. And now Tarik Jan is
referring to the same.
   In retrospect, what was known as Hindu-Muslim problem in the first part of
this century has trebled and has become an Indo-Pak problem, a problem includ-
ing the unfinished task of Partition, that is Kashmir, of demographic aggress-
ion in the east by Bangladesh, even as the Hindu-Muslim problem in India has
remained intact.
   In fact, the 'ruler syndrome' is not symbolised by "Lal Qila" as a culmina-
tion of Muslim rule, but it is very much there in Islam itself. Dr Ambedkar in
his book, "Pakistan or partition of India", wrote:
   "According to Muslim canon law, the world is divided into two camps, Dar-ul-
Islam (abode of Islam) and Dar-ul-Harb (abode of war). A country is Dar-ul-
Islam when it is ruled by Muslims. A country is Dar-ul-Harb when Muslims only
reside in it but are not rulers of it.... (page 287)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 14:36:17 -0500 (EST)
From: ARIFALI%UBVMS.bitnet@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU (Arif Ali)
Subject: Reg. response to Neepa Mazumdar

This is regarding Neepa's letter. I want to say one thing about the reader who
says that it is time to realize that there was no John or Khan before 1050AD.

I wish to comment that he talks of immigration status meaning in other words
leaving his her own country or deserting their homeland/motherland and at the
same time loving it also. This is the conflict with which most Indians are
living in western countries. If you dont want any John or Khan in India then
by the same logic you should not seek or work for immigration in John or Khan's
country. These kind of remarks preach hatred and intolerance among different
communities. Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 09:37:42 -0800
From: mujeeb@picasso.ucsf.EDU (Anwer Mujeeb)
Subject: Translation of Vande Matram

hi fellows..
Can somebody would please post an english translation of 'vande matram'..
i would like to see, what is the fuss all about..
thanks..
anwer

------------------------------

                                Social Issues
                                =============

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 02:17:00 -0500 (EST)
From: DEHOFF <MULTDIFF@pine.circa.ufl.edu>
Subject: India: A Million Mutinies

I have been following the network for approximately 6 months now and
have made my contributions mainly coming from the feminist perspective
from India's prosaic vista of women. It seems to me a country just as poor
in its male view of women as the USA or any otandro-infested place on
the planet. The recent posting on sex and violence has again reminded me
that it is man's barrenness and eternal infinite struggle for power, which
will never be included in their wasteland of maleness. India is no
different. There is fast murder of women, sex-murder, sadistic murder.
Hate must be the passion. The males in India have the same strong, ordinary,
vulgar will to debase women. Phallic-reality. Question. If the males of India,
as well as all of you males, would disregard your poisoned umbillical attitude
that woman is not "dirty," sex is not dirty, could you males have intercourse?
To what extent does intercourse depend on the inferiority and sexual violence
ofwoman? India maybe coming to terms with its independence, but its males are
just as dependent globally to mutilate the same breast that once gave them
life. The literal wounding of a woman sexually is a male fury, India not being
immune. Women found mutilated and murdered and left in parts on the banana
leaf.

Ms. Kuka Shaynall Fuller

------------------------------

End of India Interest Group Digest
**********************************