🚀 go-pugleaf

Tracy and list,

Preamble:

I am experienced in both Netscape and IE, having used the two for a
number of years. I started investigating HTML in 1990 and was probably
one of the first people in South Africa to have a Windows 3.1 HTTPD
running.

While I have rarely experienced a Netscape "crash" with their newer
releases (we're using Communicator 4.08 and installing 4.5 on all new
PCs), I am also "fed up" with Netscape's inability to interpret HTML code
properly - the way IE does.

I am also using IE5beta2. The way to start a new window in IE5 is to
press Shift+Click on a URL without going the "right-click, point" route.
Don't try Shift+Click in Communicator as it will ask you where to save the
document to!

On 17 Dec 98, at 3:33, Tracy Marks <tmar@TIAC.NET> wrote:

[snip]

A nice addition in IE4 was the ability (in Win95) to click on the open
program status bar entry to minimize and maximize, although this
sometimes is also annoying.

>
> a) IE crashes less frequently. Visiting a website with Netscape which
>  uses java ALWAYS leads to a total system freeze on all computers
>  I've used (with an AWTOOKIT error message, which is NOT solved by
>  the Sun Java Plugin, although that's Netscape's solution for the
>  problem), requiring rebooting. I find that on the average Netscape
>  crashes once an  hour (every 1/2 hour if using the editor),  disabling
>  control/alt/delete and requiring total rebooting, whereas IE crashes
>  about every 3 hours, but doesn't freeze the entire system in the
>   process. IE however consistently shows error messages which
>   keep pages (such as java) from loading properly.

Perhaps we have not visited the same sites. I do know, however, that
sometimes I visit a site and I get error messages in IE5, but I think that
has something more to do with page coding than with IE5.

>
> b) Netscape's bookmark mgmt filing scheme is superior -
>     If one has THOUSANDS of bookmarks, keeping several large
>     bookmarks files is often preferable to thousands of individual
>     bookmark files (Note however that bookmark managers such
>     as Compass and PowerMarks do work with both browsers)
>
> c) IE's bookmark ACCESS scheme is superior (with all bookmark
>     folders visible at left, and opening across the screen), though
>     Netscape's personal toolbar is useful for about 15 priority urls
>
> d) IE has bookmark alphabetization which Communicator sadly
>     lacks (a ridiculous absence; just try to navigate through 6000
>     bookmarks all day long when you can't alphabetize them!)

Netscape's "bookmark.htm" is neat and tidy, although I agree it cannot be
"alphabetized". It can be printed, used as a home page, and a few other
tricks that IE certainly cannot do - with all its directories and individual
.URL files hogging hard disk space!

> e) Netscape can reliably open new windows by right clicking and
>     choose open in a new window, whereas I have never yet used a
>     computer upon which right clicking and choosing open in new
>     window works in IE (some people say it works on their computers
>     but I have no idea what their solution is; meanwhile the only way to
>     open a link in a new window is to open another window with the same
>     web page and then click on the link on the second page, and to keep
>     doing this repeatedly)

As I mentioned in the preamble, using Shift+Click on a URL in IE almost
always opens a new window - it depends on available resources at the
time. Sometimes IE refuses to open a new window. Then I copy the URL
and go the long way round. Fortunately Win95/98 has the shortcut in the
status line (which I hide) and that's a single click to open a new window;
then paste the URL and carry on.

> f) Netscape has a better FIND feature for searching web pages
>    for a particular word ;

I can't argue with that.

> g) Making even the smallest mistake typing on a web message
>     board or editing on a web page can prevent the entire page from
>     showing in Netscape, whereas it is visible (with errors) in IE.

Sure. Try omitting a </table> tag or </td></tr> tags and Communicator
won't display the page at all. IE is more forgiving. However, IE correctly
interprets all aspects of the <STYLE> tag contained in the <HEAD>.
Without going into a discourse on HTML CSS, IE correctly interprets H1
to H6 styles if the {font-weight:bold} has been omitted. Netscape doesn't.

Netscape has yet to fix that ubiquitous bug of interpreting a TABLE
"width" parameter as being the MAXIMUM WIDTH the coder wants to
assign to a particular cell in the table. Netscape has continuously ignored
all pleas to change the algorithm to interpret <TD WIDTH="pixels"> to be
the MAXIMUM WIDTH rather than the minimum width, saying they are not
concerned with HTML coding issues.

In short, Netscape has a long way to go before it is CSS-compliant. There
have been words about their soon-to-be-released-5.x-version being totally
spec compliant, but I have yet to see that, and I will believe it when I have
tested it.

> What I'd like to know, is those of you who've used both extensively
> (preferably versions 4), WHAT DO YOU consider to be the
> advantages or disadvantages of each.....specifically. (And if you
> have  solutions for any of the above issues, PLEASE share them)

If I can voice a personal preference here, I would far sooner write code for
IE than for Netscape any day. I am very tired of Netscape's
idiosyncracies, and being required to write code that will display "the
same" in "both" browsers. If I had the choice, I would write exclusively for
IE and remove Netscape from my systems.

However, I won't get into a discussion here of the standard of coding by
modern generation HTML generators, such as those added to word
processing packages. I have always been a pedantic coder and will
probably remain so. But these generators have a long way to go before
they are spec compliant, especially where tag nesting is concerned. They
mostly border on "illegal HTML". There are the few exceptions, though. If
you want me to name them, write me.

[snip]

> (Also I'm hearing that IE 5 beta is VERY STABLE. Further
> feedback appreciated, since betas generally aren't reliable)

Having beta tested a number of applications, I am favourably impressed
with IE5beta2. There are a number of issues that I have already raised
with Microsoft about this release, but generally speaking, I am most
satisfied with it.

I have to add my compliments to the Microsoft team of programmers
involved in this project. They are doing a really great job, and I am
confident that the release version will be nigh on perfect, if that could ever
happen!


Regards,
----------
Ian Samson
Internet Publishing
Human Sciences Research Council, Pretoria, South Africa
Voice:  [+27(0)12] 302 2957   Fax: [+27(0)12] 302 2525
Organisation #: [+27(0)12] 302 2999
http://www.hsrc.ac.za/
--
Opinions expressed in this message are my own
and do not reflect official policy of the HSRC.
--
Repetition is the mother of skill.
-- Tony Robbins

There is no substitute for experience. No amount
of education can compensate for appropriate experience.
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