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2 total messages Started by James David Button Wed, 13 Jul 1994 13:20
Re: KE & P
#1387
Author: James David Button
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 13:20
27 lines
2304 bytes
This may seem strange in reference to the question, but it may
help in some ways.  I explain to my students that there are
"Orders of Conservation Laws" with "Conservation of Energy"
being the top one.  All others are subservient to it.  The
analogy I use is that the US Constitution is the "top law" of
the land, state constitutions are below it, county below it and
so on down the line.
Similarly, Conservation of Energy is the top law of physics (at
least in the Newtonian world) and everything else
conservation-wise is below it.
Thus, it is easy to conserve momentum, but it cannot happen
unless energy is also conserved.  This also gives some room to
expand on both rotational and rectilinear motion and the
conservation is those, particularly when a student has observed
that a wheel that has rolled down a hill does not have the same
rectilinear motion (energywise) at the bottom as it did
gravitational potential at the top.  When the angular velocity
is computed with the concommitant energies and momenta, the
answer gets better.  Then we can get some idea of how
comprehensive the conservation of energy law is.
Hope this clears up a bit.  I know it is a strange way of
putting it, but when you come from the state that authored the
constitution and declaration, you get kind of philosophical
about the whole ugly mess.
--
Dave Button -- Osbourn Park High School
Manassas, VA 22111  There is no try, there is only do and not do.  Yoda
Re: KE & P
#1389
Author: Joe Bellina
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 21:25
38 lines
2749 bytes
I'm not sure this is a good analysis, in particular the claim that "it
(conservation  of momentum) cannot happen unless energy is also conserved".
 It seems to me that most collisions are cases where energy is not
conserved, but momentum is.  

In article <9407131320.AA50303@pen1.pen.k12.va.us>, James David Button
<jbutton@PEN.K12.VA.US> wrote:

> This may seem strange in reference to the question, but it may
> help in some ways.  I explain to my students that there are
> "Orders of Conservation Laws" with "Conservation of Energy"
> being the top one.  All others are subservient to it.  The
> analogy I use is that the US Constitution is the "top law" of
> the land, state constitutions are below it, county below it and
> so on down the line.
> Similarly, Conservation of Energy is the top law of physics (at
> least in the Newtonian world) and everything else
> conservation-wise is below it.
> Thus, it is easy to conserve momentum, but it cannot happen
> unless energy is also conserved.  This also gives some room to
> expand on both rotational and rectilinear motion and the
> conservation is those, particularly when a student has observed
> that a wheel that has rolled down a hill does not have the same
> rectilinear motion (energywise) at the bottom as it did
> gravitational potential at the top.  When the angular velocity
> is computed with the concommitant energies and momenta, the
> answer gets better.  Then we can get some idea of how
> comprehensive the conservation of energy law is.
> Hope this clears up a bit.  I know it is a strange way of
> putting it, but when you come from the state that authored the
> constitution and declaration, you get kind of philosophical
> about the whole ugly mess.
> --
> Dave Button -- Osbourn Park High School
> Manassas, VA 22111  There is no try, there is only do and not do.  Yoda

-- 
Joseph Bellina (jbellina@saintmarys.edu)
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