🚀 go-pugleaf

George:
        Your questions are right on the mark! I'm 37 and have a
career as a therapist and researcher. I entered a Psy.D.
program and am almost at the end. I have found that the
program (Antioch, w/ full APA approval) is not geared to
the needs of people who need to work for a living.
Everything costs as much as going to Yale. I'm sure I'll
have enough work and I'll love being the one who directs
things for a change. The work probably won't pay enough to
justify my training costs, however. Programs are beginning
to recognize this. Antioch has dropped its MA requirement
and is moving to be the primary program for students fresh
out of BA training. Unless you're independently wealthy, it
won't pay for adult learners like us to spend $100,000 to
get a $70,000/ year job. You have to do it for reasons
other than pure financial gain. What do others think?

Chris Penta
penta@mail.snet.net



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> From: Automatic digest processor
<LISTSERV@mercury.cc.uottawa.ca>
> To: Recipients of PSYCGRAD digests
<PSYCGRAD@mercury.cc.uottawa.ca>
> Subject: PSYCGRAD Digest - 24 Oct 1997 to 25 Oct 1997
> Date: Saturday, October 25, 1997 11:00 PM
>
> There are 9 messages totalling 311 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. PSYCGRAD Digest - 23 Oct 1997 to 24 Oct 1997
>   2. PsyD vs. Masters in Counseling
>   3. Ethical queries (5)
>   4. PsyD, MFCC, MSW
>   5. Apology
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:36:54 EDT
> From:    Msgrnbrg <Msgrnbrg@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: PSYCGRAD Digest - 23 Oct 1997 to 24 Oct 1997
>
> Dear Xenor,
>     You wrote about a situation where a psychologist feel
strongly attracted
> to a client.  I'm glad you brought that up , because  I
think it is an
> important and insufficiently discussed problem.
>      I would deal with it as a
transference---counter-transference issue in my
> supervision sessions.  Why is this feeling coming up,
which diverts from the
> main purpose, therapy?  Is the client introducing some of
it?  Does the client
> frequently commingle sex with need to be helped ( and
possibly ambivalence
> about that)?  Is the psychologist very lonely, inclined
to sex and romance
> addiction, resentful of being the helper instead of the
helpee? Have one or
> both parties been sexually abused, and so possibly
confuse intimacy with sex?
> And so forth.
>     I think telling the client about it before all these
factors and more have
> been explored privately is tantamount to telling the
client that the therapy
> is over, that the psychologist has been diverted by
sexuality.
>     What do you and others think?
>
> Madeline
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:41:43 -0400
> From:    GeoTarkan@AOL.COM
> Subject: PsyD vs. Masters in Counseling
>
> I know we've been through this before, but I wonder if
anyone has additional
>  feedback, and I apologize for the personal nature of the
questions.
> I'm 46. I've had a successful career teaching handicapped
people. (E.D.,
> L.D., N.I., etc.)  I have a Master's degree in Spec. Ed.,
minor in
> psychology.  For me, there's nowhere else to go in Public
Education.
>
> I applied for and was admitted into a Psy. D. program.
(I need to work full
> time for as long as possible, so the Ph. D. program is
out of the question.)
>  It will take 5 years and $50,000  (not counting books,
time lost for
> practicums and internship, and interest on the student
loan.  (While I was
> extremely happy about "getting in," I deferred my
admission for a year,
> daunted not only by the time and cost (and I do not mind
nor dread the
> effort), but also by the spectres of capitation,
oversupply of doctoral-level
> psychologists, legislative disregard for mental health
care, etc.
>
> How viable is the M.C. degree?  Is it a viable
alternative to the Psy. D?  Is
> it true that Psy. D.s will have a hard enough time
getting either work or
> patients that it would render such a long and expensive
undertaking a
> ridiculous experience for someone my age?
>
> I know there are no "real" answers for these questions,
but I would
> appreciate feedback from people in similar situations, or
from people with
> specialized knowlege, because it'll soon be crunch time
again, I can only
> defer admission for one year, and I still can't quite
overcome the decisional
> inertia that even Issac Newton would marvel over.
>
> Thanks
>
> G. Tarkan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:17:45 -0500
> From:    Lisa Hale <lh1370@MIS.FINCHCMS.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Ethical queries
>
> I hate to be a stickler here -- but BEFORE getting to the
points raised
> beyond the scenario -- I find the actions of the
therapist misguided. The
> goal of therapy is to help the client; I consider this
problem to be on
> the part of the therapist, who should not bring this into
client sessions,
> but work them out separately. I personally find it creepy
> and highly unprofessional that a therapist would disclose
sexual feelings
> to the client. Intentions to act or not aside, its almost
like hitting on
> the client. It of course needs to be dealt with when the
CLIENT has the
> issue, but its our job to be the professional. I do
realize that perhaps
> there are schools of psychoanalysis that would be more
supportive of this
> therapist's actions, (?) I am in a cognitive-behaviorally
oriented doctoral
> program, and can't say I would find any of my colleagues
that would
> recommend such disclosure.
>
> On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Xenor Wurn wrote:
>
> > Scenario:
> > A therapist had been working with a client for quite
some time, and
> > became aware of the beginnings of a significant sexual
attraction toward
> > the person. The psychologist was somewhat uncomfortable
with the
> > feelings, and unsure how to handle them. After much
reflection the
> > therapist decided to discuss the situation with the
client and continue
> > with the psychotherapy. However, the therapist was very
clear that there
> > was no intention of ever acting on the feelings of
attraction.
> >
> > Key issues:
> > 1)  As stipulated by the code of ethics, any sexual or
intimate
> > relationship between therapist and client is unethical.
> > 2)  How does the client feel about the situation? Do
they want to change
> > therapists?
> > 3)  has the problem adversely affected the therapeutic
relationship?
> > 4)  is the current therapist experienced enough to
continue?
> >
> > Actions I would recommend:
> > 1) seek supervision from colleagues. Needs to ensure
that he knows how
> > to deal with the situation
> > rationale: must only ever act when sure you have
appropriate training
> > etc.
> >
> > 2) find out how the client feels and see if they want
to continue
> > rationale: always must act in the clients best interest
> >
> > Basically, I would like to present some issues and
ensure, from your
> > feedback, that I have presented all the necessary
points to help new
> > clinicians deal with such an issue.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Xenor
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 12:40:53 -0400
> From:    Phyllis Dawson <Vespera23@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Ethical queries
>
> In a message dated 97-10-25 12:21:15 EDT, you write:
>
> << I consider this problem to be on
>  the part of the therapist, who should not bring this
into client sessions,
>  but work them out separately. I personally find it
creepy
>  and highly unprofessional that a therapist would
disclose sexual feelings
>  to the client.  >>
>
>
> Lisa,
> I would have to say that I agree with your position on
this.
>
> ~Phyllis~
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:04:15 -0700
> From:    Julie Wetherell <wether@RCF.USC.EDU>
> Subject: PsyD, MFCC, MSW
>
> Have you considered an MSW degree?  In California,
Master's in Counseling
> grads can find it hard to get work while they build up
their private
> practice.  Social workers, on the other hand, can often
get a paycheck
> while they see clients in their off-hours.  (Both degrees
can eventually
> lead to independent practice.)  Either way, good luck.
Sounds like a
> difficult choice.
>
> Julie
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:03:36 -0400
> From:    Jason Seidel <jseidel@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Subject: Apology
>
> Dear fellow graduate students,
> I am writing to publicly apologize for advertising my
business on
> Psycgrad as per the attached Conditions stipulated by
Matthew Simpson
> and Jason Washburn (see below).
> I hereby express my regret and apology for advertising
without first
> receiving approval. I will never advertise on PSYCGRAD in
the future
> without first receiving approval of the list owners. I am
accountable
> for not having read the information sent to me upon being
subscribed. I
> thank you for your patience and forgiveness, and I thank
Mr. Simpson and
> Mr. Washburn for their graciousness in agreeing to drop
these charges
> upon their sufficient fulfillment.
> Sincerely,
> Jason Seidel
> jseidel@acsu.buffalo.edu
>
> Subject:
>         Advertising on PSYCGRAD -Reply
>   Date:
>         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:26:01 -0600
>   From:
>         Jason Washburn <jwashbur@wppost.depaul.edu>
>     To:
>         jseidel@acsu.buffalo.edu
>     CC:
>         matthew.simpson@erols.com
>
>
> Dear Jason,
>
> My apologies for not getting back to you sooner
concerning your
> advertising on PSYCGRAD.
>
> We will agree to drop your advertising charge if certain
conditions are
> sufficiently fulfilled. If I am not mistaken, Matthew
Simpson, the
> listowner,
> already e-mailed you concerning these conditions. If not,
I have
> provided
> the conditions below:
>
> Conditions concerning the apology for advertising:
>
>  a. that the apology be made publicly to the PSYCGRAD
list
>  b. that the apology does not advertise your business in
any way.
>  c. that the apology express regret for having advertised
without first
>     receiving approval
>  d. that the apology state that you will never advertise
on PSYCGRAD in
>     the future without first receiving approval of the
list owners
>  e. that the apology include a statement of
accountability for not
> having
>     read the information sent to you upon being
subscribed
>
> It is important for the integrity of the list that you
fulfill each of
> these
> conditions sufficiently. Once these conditions are
sufficiently
> fulfilled
> your charges will be dropped.
>
> If you have any questions concerning this proposed
agreement and/ or
> the conditions, please feel free to contact me.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jason Washburn
> PSYCGRAD Director
> e-mail: jwashbur@wppost.depaul.edu
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:14:10 -0700
> From:    Anne Dietrich <amd@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA>
> Subject: Re: Ethical queries
>
> Xenor,
>
>   For beginning therapists, accepting that sexual
attractions towards
>   clients are natural and ok might be something to convey
in this
>   situation.
>
>   I am wondering about the issue of working with clients
who have been
>   sexually abused, or where there is a suspicion that the
client was
>   abused.  In this situation, I would think that the
therapist telling
> the
>   client about his/her sexual attraction would be
inappropriate.  What
>   would be the ethical thing to do?  Consult, definitely.
 If the
>  therapist
>   is unable to contain his/her feelings, then a referral
would be vitally
>   important.
>
>   Anne
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 18:14:06 PDT
> From:    Xenor Wurn <xenor@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Ethical queries
>
> >I am wondering about the issue of working with clients
who have been
> >sexually abused, or where there is a suspicion that the
client was
> >abused.  In this situation, I would think that the
therapist telling
> >the client about his/her sexual attraction would be
inappropriate.
> >What would be the ethical thing to do?  Consult,
definitely.  If the
> >therapist is unable to contain his/her feelings, then a
referral >would
> be vitally important.
> >
> >Anne
>
> Thank you all for your replies! I have a wealth of issues
to consider,
> and it seems a general consensus that consulting with
colleagues to
> determine one's adequacy to deal with the situation is
very important.
>
> However, I am wondering how you would tell the client if
it turned out a
> referral was necessary? My guess is that a simple
statement along the
> lines of "I don't feel that I would be the best person to
help you"
> would be more beneficial than a full explanation
>
> Xenor
>
> P.S. Does anyone object to me asking a few more ethical
cases that I
> would like to publish, but want feedback on?
> If so, please email me directly
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:10:31 -0700
> From:    Anne Dietrich <amd@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA>
> Subject: Re: Ethical queries
>
> > However, I am wondering how you would tell the client
if it turned out a
> > referral was necessary? My guess is that a simple
statement along the
> > lines of "I don't feel that I would be the best person
to help you"
> > would be more beneficial than a full explanation
> >
>
> This makes sense.  This probably wouldn't be too much of
a problem if the
> therapeutic relationship is new.  I'm wondering at the
effects on the client,
> however, if the relationship is pretty well established.
Issues of
> abandonment would surely surface.  I am at a loss as to
how this should be
> handled. Any thoughts?
>
> > P.S. Does anyone object to me asking a few more ethical
cases that I
> > would like to publish, but want feedback on?
> > If so, please email me directly
>
> I don't mind at all.  It gets me thinking as well.
>
> Anne
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of PSYCGRAD Digest - 24 Oct 1997 to 25 Oct 1997
> ***************************************************