🚀 go-pugleaf

Time to try if this gateway works...

JD <SIEGAL@NDSUVM1.BITNET> writes:
>     Just a few notes about the current discussion to bad ann Saudi Arabian
>users because of the actions of a few.

"Few" here is quite a lot of people.  However, I think most Saudi
relayers are normal nice people.  They shouldn't suffer because a few
bad apples are growing there (just like everywhere).  But let's go
on...

>     First, I think everyone who uses relay is capable of using the /ignore
>command.  If someone is really bothering you, ignore them and tell an Op
>about it.  It's really not that hard.

While /ignore works fine on relay, it is not a long-term solution for
those that also have to suffer from harassment over bitnet messages.
Telling an Op helps sometimes, but unfortunately too many 0
people are too 0/scared to tell anyone, or they tell to wrong
people.  Also, far too often it is hard to show evidence about
0.  Users don't generally know how to log conversations, and
few keep logs on all the time (I do).  The best person where to
complain is a master operator of the harasser's relay, but
unfortunately /contact is not well known among users.

>     Second, I completely disagree with the tactic of banning an entire node
>in reaction to the actions of a few.  Personally, the last users I was harassed
>by (h in the same way Hellraiser and TieMeUp! have cited as reasons for
>the ban) were from EKU and INDSVAX1 I believe.  No one has suggested banning
>them, not seriously anyway.  It could be implied that this call is racist,
>or at least based on stereotypical reasoning.

Agreed.

>     Third... not to say that you shouldn't be able to choose any nickname you
>want within the rules... but... someone with the nick TieMeUp! complaining
>about constantly being asked for relay sex, etc. probably should have seen it
>coming.  (No, it doesn't make harassment right, but still...)

This sounds like a female version of the chauvinist opinion that the
0 person asked for it!   Are you going to tell me next that
because my name is Juha Taina, I should see 0 coming (due to
my feminine sounding name)?  No.  That's false reasoning, and doesn't
help us closer to the solution against 0.

>     Fourth; Would Saudi users keep coming back to relay for netsex if they
>never found any?

Yes.  And it's not only net sex, but also threatening of true violence
if their wishes are not satisfied.  How can a 18-year old beginner
know that a SAUPM00 person is on the other side of the world and can't
reach her in any way?  She can't.  The problem is real.

>     JD (s. siegal)  <--- androgynous nicks and initials seem to ward off
>lots of harassment too :)

That's why I changed my name from Juha Taina to J. Taina on relay.

There is one thing that might help against 0 on the net.  At
least on older versions of relay, even locked person could send
commands to relay and got answers.  Thus it was possible for locked
users to check who is signed on, and then send direct messages to
them.  If this could be avoided, I think direct 0 would be
reduced.  Another thing that would help is that when users signon
relay, they would get a message of how to /ignore harassers, how to
/contact a master operator and how to /getop help.  Perhaps some
relays already have such a message.

Juha (TMan on relay)

-- 
Juha Taina  taina@cs.helsinki.fi  Phone: +358-0-708-4247