🚀 go-pugleaf

[From Bill Powers (990503.0833 MDT)]

Kenny Kitzke (990502.1600EDT)--

Rick:
>Without asking
>A and B what they want (it wouldn't matter to me anyway) I force
>both to sit in their rooms and read Chaucer. Am I coercing B and
>not coercing A? >
>
Kenny:
>In the case of A, what force would you have to exert?  No coercion needed,
>even if you could coerce her.

Kenny, you're interpreting coercion to mean exactly the same thing as
applied force (actually applied, not just threatened or anticipated).

But it seems to me that there is a fundamental difference between a
relationship where you are free to choose any action you please, and one
where you are allowed to choose only one action, the one I want you to
produce. In either case, if you happen to choose the action I want to see,
I will do nothing to alter your behavior. But if you choose to do something
different from what I want, the two cases are entirely different. In the
first case I will do nothing to force you back into doing what I want, and
in the second case I will apply as much force as needed to make you go back
to behaving as I want.

We can't tell the difference between these cases until you choose to do
something other than what I want you to do. It's like a dog trotting
happily around in the back yard on a chain. As long as the dog is only
interested in things within the chain's reach, the dog will have no idea
that it is confined or limited in any way. But if it tries to follow a
scent too far, it will suddenly find itself stopped: the chain can exert
more force on the dog than the dog can overcome. I have seen some young
dogs go nuts when they realize they can't keep going; they act as if
they're been attacked, and struggle and bite the chain and end up exhausted
and trembling. Yet they were perfectly happy when they were just nosing
around within the bounds set by the chain, before they discovered the limits.

To me, the difference between coercion and no coercion is not whether
someone is actively jerking on the chain or is just holding the end of it.
It's whether the chain exists at all. I will feel coerced if I know the
chain is there, whether it's jerking on me or not. And if I'm holding the
end of the chain attached to someone else  (and am ready to use it), I will
feel like a coercer even if the other person, for the moment, is behaving
just the way I want. I will never know if the other person agrees with my
goals, or is just avoiding the pain of forceful correction.

How would you feel about your freedom of speech, Kenny, if you knew that
someone was monitoring every word and checking to see if you were saying
things offensive to, say, Hindus? And if this person had the power to gag
you and prevent your saying such things, would you feel free to say what
you please even if you didn't happen to want to say anything that would
upset a Hindu?

I wouldn't.

Best,

Bill P.