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Article #257Re: Thats nice, now lets talk about PCT
From: Rick Marken
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:00
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:00
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[From Rick Marken (990421.2130)] Me to Isaac: > Have you figured out the problem with Rushton et al's test > for the variable controlled when a person walks to a target? Lazare, Mark (990421) > Would it or could it be a balance of; > > Distance ? > Effort ? > Time ? Ok. I'll explain. The Rushton et al experiment tests to determine which of two variables _cause_ locomotion: FoE or target image position. They test this by seeing what happens to locomotion when subjects wear prism glasses. Prism glasses cause a change in target image position but not FoE. So, if FoE is the cause of locomotion then prisms _will not_ have an effect on locomotion. If target image position is the cause of locomotion then prisms _will_ have an effect on locomotion. Rushton et al found that the prisms _do_ have an effect on locomotion so they concluded that target image position is the cause of locomotion. All this makes sense in terms of a cause-effect model of behavior. But it makes no sense at all in terms of a control model of behavior. The fact that the prisms seem to have an effect on locomotion does not rule out FoE as a controlled variable. We know from the optics of the situation that FoE will remain the same (on target) with the prisms on as long as the subject moves toward the actual target (as Rushton et al noted) or toward the _image_ of the target (as Bill Powers noted). So when we see a person "locomote" toward the image of a target with prisms on the FoE is the same as it was with the prisms off. This was Bill Powers' (990419.1452 MDT) point when he said: > if a person wearing the prisms maintains the image of the target > in the center of vision, then the optic flow will be outward from > that center just as if there were no prisms. So, for all we know, the subject's _were_ controlling FoE in the Rushton et al experiment. The FoE is apparently about the same in both the prism and non prism conditions. But we don't know whether or not this happens because FoE is controlled; that is we don't know whether FoE is the same in the prism and non-prism conditions as a result of an active control process or as an accidental side effect of controlling some other variable (such as target image position). The only way to test whether or not FoE is controlled is by monitoring FoE _while_ it is being disturbed to see if FoE is protected from the disturbance. This is what Rushton et al did _not_ do becuase they didn't know how control systems work. So they certainly didn't rule out FoE as a possible controlled variable using the test. And the results of their test to determine whether target image position is controlled are so noisy that they are completely inconclusive. Again, Rushton et al missed doing the test because they assumed that input "causes" or "controls" output; they would have done much better if they had known than input is "controlled" by output; then they could have tested to determine which inputs _are_ being controlled. Best Rick -- Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313 Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken/
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X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f6c09,e681d8132e641a7a X-Google-Attributes: gidf6c09,public From: Rick Marken <rmarken@EARTHLINK.NET> Subject: Re: Thats nice, now lets talk about PCT Date: 1999/04/21 Message-ID: <371EB4CC.2311@earthlink.net> X-Deja-AN: 469414942 Sender: "Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)" <CSGNET@POSTOFFICE.CSO.UIUC.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4dbfe8ef.244f6c19@aol.com> Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: bit.sci.purposive-behavior