🚀 go-pugleaf

i.kurtzer (990504.0845)


> [From Bill Powers (990504.0845 MDT)]
>
> I find this whole coercion argument pretty baffling. If A can make B do
> anything that A wants, what difference in the outcome is produced by what B
> wants?

It makes a difference to us, the observers, to know what B wants.  A's do go to
sleep sometimes, and then whatever B's intentions are will be manifest.  B
might flee or spoon next to A.

> B, inside, may feel either controlled or uncontrolled, but what does
> A care about that? And what difference does it make in any visible outcome?
>
> Perhaps the answer to Isaac's oft-repeated slogan (you need two people to
> have a relationship) is that forcing another person to act by using
> overwhelming physical force is not a relationship between two people. It's
> a relationship between one person and a thing. When you're controlling a
> thing, you simply increase the force you're using until the thing does what
> you want. Some things are easier to force than others, but if you can
> muster enough resources, you can control most of them.

This is not "a slogan".  It has practical research consequences like where to
look to undestand something.Also, forcing another is not a relationship among a
thing, but over an overpowered control system who gives a durn about their
perceptions, and that fact will become very obvious when A goes to sleep.

i.