🚀 go-pugleaf

Interestingly this thread has been diverted to doom and gloom predictiond
based on our views of human nature and capacity for violence...

There are the formationation of a growning and diverse anti-globalisation
social movement based on real pain that real people a feeling around the
world because of globalisation...
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BACK UNDER YOUR ROCK cur boy Mosley AND STAY THERE!    
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Jacques Chester wrote:

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> MAD MAL <m.bradley@student.murdoch.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.3.96.1000727225000.6435D-100000@student.murdoch.edu.au..
> .
> [..]
> > > This protest will either fizzle laughably or turn very nasty.
> >
> > We shall see, it wont fizzle...
> 
> This is kinda what I'm afraid of.

Alas, protest is the only avenue that society leaves open to the
alienated...

With the Olympics so close such an opportunity cannot be wasted by
activists of all sorts...

> > All sorts of groups will be protesting, the majority will be in a
> > carnival atmosphere, though others are less predictable...
> 
> It's the less predictable ones that are the problem. 

Yes

> Will anyone be turning up in the
> Seattle Looter's look? Gasmask, hankerchief,
> baseball armour? 

At the right time many of these things might be useful...

What is it, that boy scout motto, be prepared?

> Were I protest organiser or
> police officer, I'd keep a close eye on those
> people.

Yes
 
> > Maybe a few multinational targets get smashed at worst, it depends
> > on the croud control in forced...
> 
> It will depend on crowd control to some extent.
> It will depend also on the crowd. 

Yes

> If the crowd turns into a mob, the only real option
> left to the police is to deploy brute force
> to break it up before it worsens. 

There are thankfully other methods, from what I can gather protesters will
be in self sufficient tribes, some with leaders others not, so the crowd
can be controlled somewhat...

IT IS THE POLICE WHO HAVE TO RETAIN CONTROL OF THEMSELVES!!

Police must accept their loss of control during the carnival and hold the
barracades, and no doubt there will be plain clothes( and others) spotting
peoples who are on the nastier side... 

> There really is no other choice.

OH, BUT THERE IS...

> Police brutality probably does have a malicious
> edge - certainly, it can't be ruled out. But
> the fact is that the use of force really is
> the only choice you have when handling an
> irrational mob-mind. You break it up or it
> will get worse.
> 
> > > I sincerely hope it fizzles. I believe in protest, but S11 to me
> > > seems like a call to violent mob action.
> >
> > A bit conservative of you, globalisation is one of the few issues
> > that gets such a wide spectrumn of support from both the left,
> > centre and the right of politics, anarchists, nationalists,
> > fundamentalists...
> 
> I'm not talking about the spectrum of support.
> I'm talking about the possibility of violence,
> injury and the destruction of property. 

Yes

> I don't believe that violent mob action is even
> remotely productive.

Mob action yes, but the violence isnt necessarily from a protester 
or order controller point of view...

> There is, of course, a cynical body of thought
> that suggests that the "organisers" know all
> this, and are seeking out confrontation for
> the attention it will bring to "the cause". 

The thing is that the various tribes work independantly, some may not even
like one another, but for the S11 day they are part of the carnival, some
tribe could be thugs but I know of none personally... 

Confrontation is appart of the process and getting 'the' message across...

Some people will be more confrontational than others, even violent...

> I prefer to believe this is not the case, but
> I must concede that surely *some* of those
> organisers understand the basics of crowd dynamics. 

Yes

> If there is deliberate design to
> incite mob-mind and violence, I think it's
> a despicable act. 

I have not heard anything like that...

> Such people are no longer
> protesters. They are as bad as the people they
> wish to destroy, and I'll happily resist them
> on that basis.

But what of your view on globalisation? 

> Technically, I suppose, I am a "conservative".
> After my survey of political parties hereabouts
> I found the Liberals to be the best organised,
> most focused and most willing to listen to
> what I had to say (I kid you not). The local
> LC and YL branches are trying to position
> themselves as "progressive Liberal". It'll be
> interesting how far they can carry that.
> 
> But when it's all said and done, I still like
> to think that I'm a liberal thinker, not a Liberal
> one.

I am a liberal thinker, among other things...

> > > Please see my reply to MAD MAL's "highschool" posting for my
> > > thoughts on this.
> >
> > Will do...
> 
> I repeat my prediction: S11 will fizzle or
> bang. I repeat my sincere hope that it
> fizzles (although I suspect it won't).
> 
> 
> be well;

JOY