🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <nnhut.780760521@bcarh80a>, nnhut@bnr.ca (Nhut Nguyen) writes:
|> Hello netters!
|> 
|> I am looking to buy an used car. Since I haven't done this before, I am
|> hoping that 'net-wisdom (R)' would help me to avoid pitfalls and traps.
|> 
|> If you have any tips and/or advice, or any good/bad experiences on buying 
|> an used cars, please post here or let me know. If there are enough info, 
|> I will post a summary.

Hey Nhut!

I have had a ton of used cars - here are a few of things I've learned over
the years:

  1) There is no such thing as a cheap car - you either pay the guy who sells
     it to you or pay the guy that fixes it for you.

  2) I definitely prefer to buy from a dealer rather than a private sale.  My
     primary reason for this is that the dealer has a vested interest in not
     burning you, since he has a reputation to uphold; a private seller will
     not be as concerned about this, IMHO and IME (the only really bad used
     car I've ever bought just happened to be the only one I ever bought on a
     private sale).

  3) Get the April issue of Consumer Reports to check the reliability ratings
     of any vehicle year/makes that you are interested in (I have a copy of the
     most recent one if you wish to borrow it).  I don't every buy anything
     that this magazine does not like.

  4) I don't ever buy a vehicle that is not already certified, and I am a
     backyard mechanic when I'm not in here.

  5) Drive the thing a few times before you buy it - take it on bumpy roads,
     highways, in the rain, etc. - anything that will show up subtle
     imperfections in the vehicle.

  6) Don't be afraid to take the thing to a garage for a once-over before you
     buy it - a hundred bucks today could save you a lot more later.

  7) Frequently check the classifieds in the paper for the going rate 
     (price-wise) of the year/models you are interested in.

  8) And make sure you know what you want, especially w.r.t. how long you
     expect to keep the vehicle.  If you want to put 30K a year on it for
     5 years, do not buy a 5-year-old car with 100K on it already.

Good luck!

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mike Leipe             | "The opposite of love isn't hate; it's apathy"     |
| Bell-Northern Research |            - John le Carre                         |
| Ottawa, Canada         |----------------------------------------------------|
| (613) 765-3206         |           * My opinions, not BNR's *               |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <nnhut.780760521@bcarh80a>, Nhut Nguyen <nnhut@bnr.ca> wrote:
>Hello netters!
>
>I am looking to buy an used car. Since I haven't done this before, I am
>hoping that 'net-wisdom (R)' would help me to avoid pitfalls and traps.
>
>If you have any tips and/or advice, or any good/bad experiences on buying 
>an used cars, please post here or let me know. If there are enough info, 
>I will post a summary.
>
>Many thanks in advance.

Check out the used-car faq:

--------

This is the 11/18/91 version of a five-part used-car buyer's checklist.  The
purpose of this list is to systematically highlight some potential problem
areas to check out in a car that you are looking at to buy from a private
individual.  It also tries raise some pointed questions that you might not
remember to ask in the limited time you have to examine the car.  These can be
of particular value when you have fallen under the seductive spell of your
dream car and your normally razor-sharp intellect has been reduced to the
mushy consistency of a slightly over-ripe melon.

Very little technical knowledge is actually needed for 90% of the items on the
checklist.  However, you will get the most out of it if you (or the friend you
bring along) know your way around the inside of an engine compartment.  Once
you've found the one you like, it can be very helpful to spend the $40 to have
a qualified mechanic who regularly works on that type of car spend an hour
testing and checking it out.  If there's anything wrong with the car, you will
make your $40 back by bargaining down the price.  If there's nothing wrong
with the car, you've bought some peace of mind.

There are five-parts to the checklist package.

     Page 1:  Checklist part 1: General procedures, initial questions.
     Page 2:  Checklist part 2: Exterior/interior examination checklist.
     Page 3:  Checklist part 3: Engine running and test drive checklist.
     Page 4:  Checklist part 4: A sample buyer-friendly Bill of Sale. 
     Page 5:  Checklist part 5: A sample Federal odometer statement.

You can read and fill out the first part in the comfort of your home before
you go to see the car, then fill out second and third when you are there
checking the car out.  If things go satisfactory, go on to fill out the fourth
and fifth.

The idea for this checklist goes back to a small motorcycle list once seen on
rec.motorcycles.  Our checklist was developed by members of the British cars
e-mailing list (british-cars-request@autox.team.net) for use when looking at
used and sometimes abused British sports cars.

Thus, you'll notice that some of the questions will be slanted in that
direction and towards that level of technology.  The checklist applies equally
well to later model cars and is picky to the point where only a relatively
pristine car will come through unscathed.  And of course, any flaws that you
uncover can be used to justify that insanely low offer that you are about to
make for the car.  By the time you are done running through the checklist,
you'll probably know more about condition of the car than the owner does. 

DON'T SEND US E-MAIL: We really don't want to get tons of e-mail about this. 
If you don't like it, then don't use it.  If you've got an important change or
addition based on your own first-hand experience, post it up to rec.autos.tech
for all to see.  If you put it in your club newsletter, it would only be
polite if you would contact and send the authors a copy.

WARNING: I've posted the checklist in the form that I use it: 132+ characters
wide, complete with tabs and control-L's.

COPYRIGHT (c) 1991, Scions of Lucas (SOL).  Permission to freely copy
and distribute all or portion of this checklist is hereby granted
provided that all of the following apply: it is not made part of another
copyrighted work, the source is acknowledged, this copyright notice is
retained, and no aspect of the distribution is for profit.

Enjoy...

--
             Lawrence Buja   and   Roger Garnett 
   (southern@ncar.ucar.edu)       (sggy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu)  
 Part 1. The british-cars Used Car Buyers Picky Mechanical Inspection Checklist.   (c) 1991 SOL (11/18/91)
------ First Phone Contact  ----------------------------------------------------------------- [ Tape Ad Here ]-----
Name:                         Phone:    (h)
Address:                      (w)
                         Date:
1.  Can you describe the car and its condition?    4.  Does it have Overdrive or Turbo? Does it work?
2.  Does it run well?                    5.  What special features or options does it have?
3.  How is the:                          6.  Why are you selling it? 
        Body?                       7.  How long have you owned it? ...had it for sale?
        Paint?                      8.  Is it currently registered and licensed?
        Interior?                   9.  Where is the car located? 
        Tires?                     10.  How many miles does it have on it? (15K/yr)
        Engine?                         11.  What problems have you had with the car?
        Brakes?                         12.  Has it ever been hit or in an accident?
        Shocks?                         13   What work does it need done on it now?
        Any Rust?                       14.  How much are you asking for it? 
                                    or What's the least you'll willing to take for it?

------ Some Questions to Ask Yourself
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why am I buying this car?               |   Do I want to work on the car more than driving it?
What do I intend to do with it?              |   Am I willing to pay a premium because someone else has
Will it be my commute vehicle?               |          already done most of the serious work on the car?
What service and support is locally available?    |   What is the most that I'm willing to pay for this car?   
Will I be driving it year-round or summer only?   |   What is the least that I think that the car can be had for?
                              |
------ Suggestions:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Read some of the "How to buy Used Cars" books available at your library.  They provide useful strategies 
    and cautions that go far beyond the scope of this list.  Also, review this list carefully before using it.
2. Always inspect/take delivery of the vehicle in the broad daylight, never in the evening/night or in the rain.
3. A clean piece of cardboard placed under the engine/trans after the test-drive will help show fluid leaks.
4. In some states, older non-titled vehicles may be titled with just a bill of sale.  Other states may 
    require an additional security bond to be posted.  Use extreme caution in either of these cases!
5. Require seller have the vehicle pass all state inspections (safety, emissions) at a mutually agreeable shop
   (NOT one of his choosing) before you pay for it. Old (>30days) inspections are of absolutely no use to you.
6. A general guide to reading exhaust smoke:
    Black smoke     =   unburned fuel   Valves bad or out of adjustment?  Carbs out of adjustment?
    Blue  smoke     =   burning oil          Accelerating: Piston rings bad? Decelerating: Valve seats/guides bad?
    White smoke     =   burning coolant!     Bad head gasket? Warped or cracked Head or Block?$$
----- Tools To Bring:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Essentials:    A cynical, mechanically-minded friend, Your standard tool set, Voltmeter, Compression Gauge, 
          Tire gauge, Flashlight, Magnet, the 2 different spark plug sockets, spray lube, clean rags 
          Clipboard, pen and hi-liter to use with a photocopy of this list, some cash, drivers license 
          and copy of your insurance showing you are covered driving the sellers car.
Optional: tow rope, starting fluid, jumper cables, timing light, ramps, jack (floor or scissors), mirror, 
          coveralls, rags, gas can, oil, duct tape, wire, repair manuals, misc.fuses, calculator

------ Additional Post-Checklist Questions
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Owner?  Names/nums of previous owners?   |   What new/aftermarket parts are in the car?  Receipts?
What regular maintenance was done?     Records?   |   Was it ever used for towing?   
Who was your mechanic? name/address/phone?   |   Has it ever been crashed, burnt, stolen, hit or rolled?
What gas mileage have you been getting?      |   How was the car generally driven?  On highway or in town?
Oil change interval?          Type of oil used?   |   Are the engine, transmission, steering, differential original?
Are there any repair or gas mileage records? |       (if not, why not?    origin and receipts?)          
How old are the tires?                 Battery?   |   Do you have any books about the car or the engine?           
Has it passed emissions recently?        Where?   |   (repair books, owners manuals, history or general   
Has any bodywork ever been done? Why? Receipts?   |         interest, parts catalogs, club newsletters)    
Any mechanical work recently? Where?  Receipts?   |   Any interesting history?  Has it ever been raced?
What work remains to be done or corrected?        |   Are there any tools that come with the car?   
Are there any missing parts?                      |   Do you know of any parts cars or good parts sources?
Do you have any extra parts or wheels for it?     |
  Part 2. Exterior-Interior Examination. (Don't start the engine yet.)     (c) 1991 SOL (11/18/91)
---------- OWNERSHIP VERIFICATION: ------------(Do all of the following agree and seem right?)----------------------
Name on title:           Name on registration:         Model/Year on title:
VIN on title:            VIN on registration:          VIN on dash:
Mileage on title:        Mileage on odometer:          VIN on door:
Price on title:               Asking price:            Blue Book price:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK Not-OK                                         OK Not-OK 
       IS THE CAR READY TO SELL:             ___ _____ Title ready for transfer?  Any liens?   
___ _____ Do body numbers match those on title?   ___ _____ Title in sellers name?   
___ _____ Do body numbers match registration?     ___ _____ Current Emissions certificate, < 30 days old?
___ _____ Current registration? Current Plates?   ___ _____ Current Safety certificate if req'd, <30days?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       EXTERIOR WALK-AROUND:            ___ _____ Check door edges and underside for rust/tears
___ _____ Is anything obviously broken?      ___ _____ Are grill/lights cracked, dented or broken?
___ _____ Car sits level? (view from all sides)   ___ _____ Are bumpers dinged?  Rusty?  Loose?  Level?
___ _____ Paint OK? Panels same shade?  Cracks?   ___ _____ Any of the trim or hubcaps rusty or missing? 
___ _____ New paint?   Why?   Any body ripples?   ___ _____ Find bottom of trunk/side wells. Rust? Holes?       
___ _____ Rust/repair on body?  Fenders? Sills?   ___ _____ Raise/lower the top. Condition? Does it leak?
___ _____ Any Bondo? Fiberglas? (magnet)  Why?    ___ _____ Rubber parts and seals condition? Cracked?   
___ _____ Any fender dings or misalignment?Why?   ___ _____ Gas tank & fill hose OK?   Rusty?  Patched?
___ _____ Door/hood dings?  Misalignment?  Why?   ___ _____ Jack OK?  Spare tire good?  Jack points good?
___ _____ Doors/hoods open/close freely?  Rubs?   ___ _____ Tires: Tread? Bulges? Cracks?  All the same? 
___ _____ Check doors/hinges for stress/tears.    ___ _____ Rims: Bent? Rusted? Cracks?  All the same?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       UNDERSIDE:                            ___ _____ Constant velocity joints and boots OK?
___ _____ Anything dented?  Bent?  Welded? Why?   ___ _____ Camber?   Caster?    Tire wear even?    
___ _____ Any underbody/floor pan/trunk rust?     ___ _____ Suspension loose?  Pull on side/top of wheels.
___ _____ Any rocker panel or wheel well rust?    ___ _____ All shocks & struts damp OK?   Any leaks? 
___ _____ Are main frame members rusted?  Dogs?   ___ _____ Exhaust pipe/cats/muffler solid & original?
___ _____ Disks grooved? Brake pads? Any leaks?   ___ _____ Tail pipe: Grey=OK, sooty/oily/greasy=Not-OK
___ _____ Turn, push/pull driveshaft by hand.     ___ _____ Anything hanging down, taped or wired up?
___ _____ Any movement or slop?     U-joints OK?  ___ _____ Any non-stock suspension mods? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       UNDER HOOD:                 ___ _____ Heater hoses stiff? Cracked? Patched?
___ _____ Anything broken?  Patched?   Leaking?   ___ _____ Vacuum hoses stiff? Patched? Capped? Missing?
___ _____ Is engine clean?   Any rust?   Stock?   ___ _____ Is emissions equip original & working?!$
___ _____ Has it overheated?  Paint blistered?    ___ _____ Are catalytic converters original & working?$
___ _____ Check fluid levels.   Look for leaks.   ___ _____ Distributor, cap, rotor, and points OK?
___ _____ Check fluid condition with flashlight   ___ _____ Wiring harness appearance?  Any new elec.tape? 
___ _____ Any play in main crankshaft pulley?!$   ___ _____ Open fuse box. Any missing? Any wiring hacks? 
___ _____ Any play in any of the other pulleys?   ___ _____ Any non-stock engine modifications?   
___ _____ V-Belts cracked?   frayed?   missing?   ___ _____ Remove grounding cable, check for shorts.
___ _____ Radiator corroded?    Hoses cracked?    ___ _____ System polarity:    +  or  -   ground?
___ _____ check coolant, run finger inside   ___ _____ System voltage:     ___________ volts
             radiator neck to check for oil. ___ _____ Battery age/voltage ______/_____ volts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       INTERIOR/ELECTRICAL:             ___ _____ Steering play? Does shaft move at all?  Why?
___ _____ Is anything broken?  Torn?   Patched?   ___ _____ Brake pedal feels right?  Smooth?  Firm?
___ _____ Carpets OK?   Underlayment condition?   ___ _____ Clutch pedal feels right? Smooth?  
___ _____ Rust, rot or water under the carpets?   ___ _____ All gauges/controls work?  Stereo?  Tape?
___ _____ Any wiring hacks under the dash?   ___ _____ Headlights high/low work? Lenses OK?
___ _____ Seats dirty or torn? Look under cover   ___ _____ Tail and side lights all work? Lenses OK?
___ _____ Do both seats adjust?  Seat heaters?    ___ _____ Brake lights all work? Any broken lenses?
___ _____ Dash cracked?   Headliner torn/dirty?   ___ _____ Turn signals all work? Any broken lenses?
___ _____ Windshield cracked? Chips? Scratched?   ___ _____ Windshield wipers & washer work? 
___ _____ Windows all open & close? Any cracks?   ___ _____ Heater, defroster, AC, and fans work?      
___ _____ Mirrors all present and adjustable?     ___ _____ Safety equipment (seat belts, horn work?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Part 3: Engine start-up, running and test drive.          (c) 1991 SOL (11/18/91)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK Not-OK                     OK Not-OK
       IGNITION ON, BUT DON'T START ENGINE:  ___ _____ Oil warning light should come on! Connected?
___ _____ Temp light should come on! Connected?   ___ _____ Charge warning light should come on!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       START THE ENGINE YOURSELF:       ___ _____ Oil Pressure:  idle_______ 4000 RPM_______
___ _____ Temp   warning light goes out?     ___ _____ Volts/Amps:    idle_______ 4000 RPM_______
___ _____ Oil    warning light goes out?     ___ _____ Any odd engine noises when cold?   
___ _____ Charge warning light goes out?     ___ _____ Exhaust condition/noises? Pressure even?      
___ _____ Do all idiot lights go on/out right?    ___ _____ Cap pipe with clipboard.   Any exhaust leaks? 
___ _____ Are all the instruments working?   ___ _____ Any deposits on clipboard?     Does it smoke? 
___ _____ Does it start easily when cold?    ___ _____ Turn car off. Does it restart?  Restart again.
___ _____ Does it run smoothly when cold?    ___ _____ Now pull forward.  Check for leaks on ground.
___ _____ Depress clutch several times. Noises?   ___ _____ Do you have any gas?  Does gauge really work?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       TEST DRIVE (Allow 30-40 minutes)      ___ _____ Make 2 tight 360' turns each way. Any noises?
___ _____ Test the foot and hand brakes first!    ___ _____ Accelerates smoothly from dead stop?    
___ _____ Relax, drive a bit to get used to it.   ___ _____ Are there any hesitations/flat spots?   
___ _____ How does car ride?   Soft or hard?      ___ _____ Does the power seem right?   Hill test. 
___ _____ Revs smoothly to red line? flatspots?   ___ _____ Is it running too hot or cold?   Why?   
___ _____ Any unusual engine noises/vibrations?   ___ _____ Drive beside a long wall.  Any unusual sounds?
___ _____ Any drive train noises or vibrations?   ___ _____ Is it too noisy in general at highway speeds?
___ _____ Any noticeable slop in drive train?     ___ _____ Any noises or vibrations when accelerating?  
___ _____ Reverse works?  Rev.lights go on/off?   ___ _____ Any noises or vibrations when coasting?
___ _____ Trans shifts smoothly to all gears?     ___ _____ Any noises or vibrations when decelerating?  
___ _____ Overdrive engages/disengages properly   ___ _____ Any noises or vibrations when braking?
___ _____ Turbo engages/disengages properly? ___ _____ Steering action loose or tight? Parallel park.
___ _____ Any clunks, whines, rumbles, rattles?   ___ _____ Handles OK on bumps, curves and sharp corners?
___ _____ Clutch smooth? Slippage on hill test?   ___ _____ Slaloms OK?  Bad understeer, oversteer, lean?     
___ _____ Hand brake works? Test against engine   ___ _____ Tracks straight with hands off steering wheel?
___ _____ Is the low engine speed operation OK?   ___ _____ Brakes straight with hands off steering wheel?
___ _____ Brakes strongly to stop from 50mph?     ___ _____ Brakes still work? Pulls? Pulse? Drag? Noises?
___ _____ Do brakes still work? Stops straight?   ___ _____ Having fun yet?  Comfortable?   Does it fit? 
Have friend get out and watch the car driving:    ___ _____ Do the heater, defroster and AC work right?
___ _____   Tracks straight?   (Frame bent?) ___ _____ Are all the instruments & lights still working?             
___ _____   Smokes?                     ___ _____ Now let it idle a while.  Is temp stable/OK? 
___ _____   Wheels wobble?  Any noises?      ___ _____ Any exhaust, gas or coolant odors? Pull forward.   
___ _____   Leans?       General impression? ___ _____ Turn it off.  Go back to check ground for leaks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       POST DRIVE:                 ___ _____ Open hood.  See or hear anything unusual?
___ _____ Does it restart when warm?   Why not?   ___ _____ Does engine seem too hot?

___ _____ Check for fluid leaks after shutdown.  (Oil, Coolant, Hydraulics, Trans, Fuel, Differential)

___ _____ Check oil cap and dipstick for signs of water. (Oil off-color, brown/grey/white or bubbly)

___ _____ Compression test:        1. Dry:   1____ 2____ 3____ 4____ 5____ 6____ 7____ 8___
(disconnect coil, remove ALL plugs)     2. Oiled: 1____ 2____ 3____ 4____ 5____ 6____ 7____ 8___

___ _____ Plug condition? (OK? Burnt? Oily? Sooty?)    1____ 2____ 3____ 4____ 5____ 6____ 7____ 8___

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       COMMENTS:

                                                       (11/18/91)

                             BILL OF SALE    

 Year, make, and model:  ___________________________________________________________________
                       
 VIN:                    _____________________________
                       
 Odometer reading:  _____________________________ 

 Date and time of sale:  _____________   _____________ 


     Seller hereby acknowledges receipt of $______________ in the form of ______________ 
     for full and final payment for the above vehicle, which is sold "AS IS". 

     I, the seller, certify that I or we are the current owner of this vehicle, and have the 
     authority to sell it.  I hereby transfer full ownership of this vehicle described on this
     receipt to the buyer(s).  I certify that the Title or ownership of this vehicle at the
     time of sale is subject to no outstanding taxes, fees, liens or encumbrances, other than
     those specified on the Title or listed below, if any, and none other, and that if there
     are, the seller will be held fully responsible for their payment.

     Buyer(s) hereby acknowledges receipt of the following: the signed certificate of ownership
     transferring seller's full ownership of the vehicle and all of it's contents to the buyer;  
     various maintenance records; this signed bill of sale and the mileage disclosure statement;
     and all keys to the vehicle as well as delivery of the vehicle.



     
     ________________________________   __________________________________
     (seller 1's signature)     (date)  (buyer 1's signature)       (date)
     
     ________________________________   __________________________________
     (seller 2's signature)     (date)  (buyer 1's signature)       (date)
     
     Seller:                       Buyer:
     phone:                        phone:
     address:                 address:






                                                       (11/18/91)






                             BILL OF SALE    



 Year, make, and model:  ___________________________________________________________________
                       
 VIN:                    _____________________________
                       
 Odometer reading:  _____________________________ 

 Date and time of sale:  _____________   _____________ 


     Seller hereby acknowledges receipt of $______________ in the form of ______________ 
     for full and final payment for the above vehicle, which is sold "AS IS". 

     I, the seller, certify that I or we are the current owner of this vehicle, and have the 
     authority to sell it.  I hereby transfer full ownership of this vehicle described on this
     receipt to the buyer(s).  

     Buyer(s) hereby acknowledges receipt of the following: the signed certificate of ownership
     transferring seller's full ownership of the vehicle and all of it's contents to the buyer;  
     this signed bill of sale and all keys to the vehicle as well as delivery of the vehicle.



     
     ________________________________   __________________________________
     (seller 1's signature)     (date)  (buyer 1's signature)       (date)
     
     ________________________________   __________________________________
     (seller 2's signature)     (date)  (buyer 1's signature)       (date)
     


                                                                           (11/18/91)

                         ODOMETER (MILEAGE) STATEMENT                    

     (Federal regulations require you to state the odometer mileage upon transfer of ownership.
     An inaccurate or untruthful statement may make you liable for damages to your transferee,
     for attorney fees, and for civil or criminal penalties, pursuant to Sections 409, 412, and
     413 of the Motor Vehicle Information and Cost Savings Act of 1972 (Pub. L.  92-513, as
     amended by Pub. L.  94-364) and applicable state laws.)


     I, the seller _________________________________________, state that the odometer mileage on

     the vehicle described below now reads ________________________ miles/kilometers.

      _   Check ONE box only:
     |_| (1)   I hereby certify that to the best of my knowledge the odometer reading as stated
          above reflects the actual mileage of the vehicle described below.
      _
     |_| (2)   I hereby certify that to the best of my knowledge the odometer reading as stated
          above reflects the amount of mileage in excess of designed mechanical odometer limit
          of 99,999 miles/kilometers of the vehicle described below.
      _
     |_| (3)   I hereby certify that to the best of my knowledge the odometer reading as stated above
          is NOT the actual mileage of vehicle described below and should not be relied upon.



            _____________________________     ______________________________    _________
           |Make                        |Model                        |Body Type

          
            _____________________________    _______________      _______________________
           |Vehicle Identification No   |Year          |Dealer Stock No.



      _   Check ONE box only:
     |_| (1)   I hereby certify that the odometer of said vehicle was not altered, set back, or
          disconnected while in my possession, and I have no knowledge of anyone doing so.
      _ 
     |_| (2)   I hereby certify that the odometer was altered for repair or replacement purposes
          while in my possession, and that the mileage registered on the repaired or
          replacement odometer was identical to that before such service.
      _
     |_| (3)   I hereby certify that the repaired or replacement odometer was incapable of
          registering the same mileage, that it was reset to zero, and that the mileage on the
          original odometer or the odometer before repair was ________________ miles/kilometers.

          ________________________________   __________________________________
          (seller 1's signature)     (date)  (buyer 1's signature)       (date)
          
          ________________________________   __________________________________
          (seller 2's signature)     (date)  (buyer 1's signature)       (date)
          
          Seller:                       Buyer:
          phone:                        phone:

In article <nnhut.780760521@bcarh80a>, Nhut Nguyen <nnhut@bnr.ca> wrote:
>I am looking to buy an used car. Since I haven't done this before, I am
>hoping that 'net-wisdom (R)' would help me to avoid pitfalls and traps.

>If you have any tips and/or advice, or any good/bad experiences on buying 
>an used cars, please post here or let me know. If there are enough info, 
>I will post a summary.

Run, do not walk, to the nearest book store and buy a copy of Edmonston's
"Lemon Aid for Used Cars".  It covers everything you need to know,
and then some...and more...  In addition to having pretty good reviews
on most cars available used.

Lemon Aid tends to be unduly harsh on some cars, but that's a lot
better than not being harsh enough.
-- 
Every once in a while I write something that someone might use
in a signature.  So I go back and make it real spiffy.  No luck.
Then some guy goes and uses *that* dog.  Argh!

Nhut Nguyen wrote:
*I am looking to buy an used car. Since I haven't done this before, I am
*hoping that 'net-wisdom (R)' would help me to avoid pitfalls and traps.

First, if you use Consumers Reports, take it with a grain of salt. Their 
survey methods are poor. A solid red dot is good, a solid black is bad, 
everything in between -- who knows? They tend also not to judge cars that 
are more than 5 (I think) years old. 

Second, you might want to look at K-cars with the 2.2 or 2.5 engines as 
severely underestimated transportation; they are quick with a five-speed 
due to their light weight (Omnis/Horizons quicker). Avoid turbos as used 
cars due to the beating the engine takes. 

Check carefully for painted-over rust. Remember the cost of new tires. 
Don't believe anything anyone tells you. Take a friend along in case your 
enthusaism runs away with you. Look for signs of a previous accident, 
especially at commercial places. Buy from a person if you want a lower 
price. Cars before electronic fuel injection and electronic ignition need 
more maintenance. (Get electronic ignition! It's worth it! Standard on 
most Chrysler products 1970 and after, GM 1974 or so and after).

Ignore stories told in rec.autos.misc about cars with a cajillion miles 
on them. 

Good luck.

/dave