🚀 go-pugleaf

"Simon Beesley" <simonbeesley@clara.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:47b13303@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Dan,
>
> Obviously I didn't make myself clear. I said the idea of 
> the Delphi Basics
> site as a replacement for the absent documentation was 
> laughable since it is
> such an inadequate response to the product's major 
> deficiency; i.e. I am
> not disparaging the Delphi Basics site, it's excellent as 
> far as it goes.
> What I meant was that it is ludicrous that people who 
> spend several hundred
> pounds on a complex piece of software should be directed 
> to a third-part
> hobbyist's site, no matter how good it is.
>
> That is exactly what the new user has to do. And he 
> shouldn't have to, any
> more than he should have to have buy Mario Cantu's book. 
> When I started with
> Delphi 1, in 1996, I learnt the system through a 
> combination of the help,
> Delphi Magazine, umpteen Delphi web sites, and one or two 
> third-party books
> (which were indeed very useful). If I'd found the help was 
> unusable and, on
> complaining, had been told to go to some reference site I 
> (and I think every
> other user) would have been outraged. It's a joke -- not 
> the excellent
> Delphi Basics site, but the fact that that is all that's 
> available.
>
> It is a good suggestion, but my emphasis is on the fact it 
> needs to made.
> You wrote:
>
> "I know CodeGear is working on the help (still) and I've 
> given them a lot of
> input on the priority and importance...
> with *reasons* and *examples* of what the cause and effect 
> is."
>
> That would be fine if it was two months after the launch. 
> It's nine
> months -- and they seem to have done nothing effective.

Actually the feedback I was talking about started with D2005 
and (trust me on this!) what you see with D2007 is (cough) 
light years better.  IMHO (and I think in their opinion as 
well but they'll have to address that) they really screwed 
up with Help right after D7.

> I have never come
> across anything like this (for incompetence) in the 
> software world or in any
> other industry. And it's especially puzzling given that 
> the previous Help
> versions were unusally good. My point is that making 
> excuses for CodeGear or
> persistently cutting them slack doesn't seem to be doing 
> any good.
>
> That's why I am going on like this. Perhaps if enough 
> people make a fuss,
> they may finally manage to get right what almost every 
> software vendor gets
> right the first time.

Certainly a lot of folks have made a fuss (ref tons of rants 
in the newsgroups in the last couple of years), but maybe a 
reminder is in order that the work is not done.  It is not 
done until a new user can take examples and figure out what 
is doing on.

I think you need to put it in those terms, with specifics, 
to be of any help.  Explain what a new user faces, posit the 
questions they probably have, and figure out how they'd try 
to find the answers.

Then ask how long they're going to do that before giving up.

> The truth is, I think Delphi is great product and I can't 
> really imagine
> switching to another RAD system. All the more reason 
> therefore to be as
> severe on them as possible. I want to carry on using 
> Delphi -- and if they
> can't do the Help properly, and then almost 
> incomprehensibly fail to improve it in nine months, it 
> tends to shake one's confidence in their ability to take
> Delphi further rather than backwards. It also means users 
> are making enough noise. If everyone were to protest --  
> OK, maybe not in as strong terms as my protest -- it's 
> just possible, fingers crossed, CodeGear might manage to 
> get it together.

I could be wrong, but I *think* they know they've got a 
problem still.  I believe the way to help is to keep the 
focus on the problem and to point out specific scenarios 
that we see to be lacking.

It's like going to the auto dealership and telling them you 
don't like their car.  Do they know what to do about that?? 
If you tell them it needs more power you'll get one 
response... if you tell them it needs better gas mileage 
you'll get another.  If you never tell them anything 
specific then they'll probably put on a cool ruby hood 
ornament and you'll be left scratching your head<g>.  They 
tried, but can't figure out what you wanted.

I personally think it is especially important to give them 
input on what we think "new users" would find critical.  The 
reason for that is that their normal input seems to come 
from long time users via surveys and such.

I cannot state clearly enough how critical it is to capture 
a new user when they sit down in front of Delphi to give it 
a try.  If they make a serious effort and don't succeed then 
you'll have a hell of a time getting them to try again.

Dan