Thread View: borland.public.delphi.documentation
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Started by Ed
Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:44
RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Ed
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:44
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:44
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Hi,
After giving RAD2007 a whirl for the past few weeks, I have *MAJOR*
gripes about the new help system.
1) It is TIED to MS' help framework. Can't you create your own
help system? (Why re-invent the wheel? Because, 1) you can.
2) The moment I click on help, it tries to contact an external
site. The first time it did that I went into the
properties/options and removed all references to MSDN (COME ON
CG! MSDN??!). Subsequent usage of help still tries to contact
an external site. Sure, I deny these accesses. But WHY is
it necessary for dexplorer.exe to phone out? I've already
removed all 'external sources' from the help properties. What
more am I missing?
3) It's SLOW as heck searching for items. The old winhelp
system? It was faster.
Unfortunately, now that MS has dumped winhelp.exe in favor of this
dexplorer.exe, I don't think I have a choice. But is it necessary
for CG to use MSHelp? (Rhetorical question, really. Seeing CG
has no option but to comply with the MS platform, what else can I do?)
This is a perfect example of taking a perfectly useful help system and
replacing it with a POS. The thing is, BDS2006 documentation
bit the bullet not because of any technological wizardry issues.
It's because the content, or lack thereof, was the problem. Now
changing the method of presenting the content doesn't establish better
content. Just a better way of viewing the content(or lack of).
Quite frankly, seeing BDS2006's help and RAD2007's help, the
only discernible difference I see is the layout. I have yet to
see any difference in the content.
That said, I am now updating my edition to the December update, but
am having some difficulties. (Should I be surprised here?) I
hope the update will prove to be an improvement. (Crosses fingers)
Edmund
Edmund
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Simon Beesley
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:25
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:25
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Hi, > That said, I am now updating my edition to the December update, but > am having some difficulties. (Should I be surprised here?) I > hope the update will prove to be an improvement. (Crosses fingers) As far as I can see the update makes not the slightest difference. RAD 2007's Help is practically unusable. It's hard to understand how Code Gear can take an exceptionally good help system (up to at least D7) and sabotage it. Sad to see such a great product being run into the ground. No one who wasn't already familiar with Delphi could possibly get started with RAD 2007. Simon
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Tiedo Kruisselbrink
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:18
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:18
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Simon Beesley wrote: > As far as I can see the update makes not the slightest difference. > RAD 2007's Help is practically unusable. AFAIK The december update doesn't do anything with the Help. There has been a separate help-update in november 2007. > It's hard to understand how Code Gear can take an exceptionally good > help system (up to at least D7) and sabotage it. No, this is easy to understand: MS has decided not to support the old html-help system anymore, so something had to be done... > No one who wasn't already > familiar with Delphi could possibly get started with RAD 2007. Have a look at www.delphibasics.co.uk/ Tiedo
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Simon Beesley
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:06
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:06
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Hi, >> It's hard to understand how Code Gear can take an exceptionally good >> help system (up to at least D7) and sabotage it. > > No, this is easy to understand: MS has decided not to support the old > html-help system anymore, so something had to be done... That doesn't explain why the RAD 2007 help is so much worse (painfully slow among other things) than RAD 2005 help and MS's Visual Studio help. Of course CodeGear had to go along with MS's new help system, but did they have to screw it up in the process? Simon
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: DJSox
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:07
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:07
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> >> No one who wasn't already >> familiar with Delphi could possibly get started with RAD 2007. > > Have a look at www.delphibasics.co.uk/ > > Tiedo > That's precisely the problem! How would someone new to Delphi find that site? Without new users Delphi will die, right now it takes a real effort to get started with Delphi if you are new to it. CG should place some links on the welcome page to sites like the one above to make it easy new users to find. They should also subsidize/support a select number of Delphi Basics websites as well, at least until the help is improved enough so that anyone can start programming in Delphi. Dan
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Jim Higgins
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:22
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:22
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On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:25:24 -0000, "Simon Beesley" <simonbeesley@clara.co.uk> wrote: >Hi, > >> That said, I am now updating my edition to the December update, but >> am having some difficulties. (Should I be surprised here?) I >> hope the update will prove to be an improvement. (Crosses fingers) > >As far as I can see the update makes not the slightest difference. RAD >2007's Help is practically unusable. > >It's hard to understand how Code Gear can take an exceptionally good help >system (up to at least D7) and sabotage it. Sad to see such a great product >being run into the ground. No one who wasn't already familiar with Delphi >could possibly get started with RAD 2007. > >Simon Are there any books available? Especially ones useful to someone new to the latest version of "Turbo Delphi?" I saw a few on Amazon and the like - mostly rather old ones - and couldn't tell if the newer ones were applicable to the program I downloaded for free a few weeks ago. Any pointers appreciated.
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Dave Keighan
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:50
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:50
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Jim, > new to the latest version of "Turbo Delphi?" > Any pointers appreciated. Inside Delphi 2006 by Ivan Hladni http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Delphi-Wordware-Developers-Library/dp/1598220039 Ignoring the C++ half of things, it's an excellent book. Totally Turbo applicable. -- Dave
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Jim Higgins
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:06
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:06
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:50:53 -0800, "Dave Keighan" <dave.keighan@gmail.com> wrote: >Jim, > >> new to the latest version of "Turbo Delphi?" >> Any pointers appreciated. > >Inside Delphi 2006 by Ivan Hladni >http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Delphi-Wordware-Developers-Library/dp/1598220039 >Ignoring the C++ half of things, it's an excellent book. > >Totally Turbo applicable. Thanks! I saw that one, but was hesitant given the "2006" in the title. Reviews are good so I'll give it a try based on your "live" recommendation. Thanks again! So, assuming I absorb what this book has to offer, do I need another book to get me up to the 2007 level or should that pretty much work itself out as I gain experience? Anything good out there (and is it even really needed) that will fill in the gaps between 2006 and 2007?
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Ed
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:14
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:14
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Simon Beesley wrote: > > As far as I can see the update makes not the slightest difference. RAD > 2007's Help is practically unusable. It's usable alright. If you know what you're doing. Otherwise, you really have no clue what to do with some of the methods. (Ok. I don't.) > > It's hard to understand how Code Gear can take an exceptionally good help > system (up to at least D7) and sabotage it. Sad to see such a great product To be fair, I think it was Borland's doing on the BDS2006 help issue. I don't know the help system with D8 and D2005, but between D7 and D2006, Borland took six steps back. CG is trying to recover from that help (or lack of) negative progression. Edmund Edmund
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: DJSox
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:39
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:39
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Try searching LuLu.com, I think Mastering Delphi 2007 by Marco Cantu is available there, as are several other Delphi related books. I haven't used LuLu.com myself, but it seems the consensus in the NG that it is quite good. Dan "Jim Higgins" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:pgv9p3d6tpevj06hnfoa6rhnhj251td31p@4ax.com... > On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:25:24 -0000, "Simon Beesley" > <simonbeesley@clara.co.uk> wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>> That said, I am now updating my edition to the December update, but >>> am having some difficulties. (Should I be surprised here?) I >>> hope the update will prove to be an improvement. (Crosses fingers) >> >>As far as I can see the update makes not the slightest difference. RAD >>2007's Help is practically unusable. >> >>It's hard to understand how Code Gear can take an exceptionally good help >>system (up to at least D7) and sabotage it. Sad to see such a great >>product >>being run into the ground. No one who wasn't already familiar with Delphi >>could possibly get started with RAD 2007. >> >>Simon > > > Are there any books available? Especially ones useful to someone new > to the latest version of "Turbo Delphi?" I saw a few on Amazon and > the like - mostly rather old ones - and couldn't tell if the newer > ones were applicable to the program I downloaded for free a few weeks > ago. > > Any pointers appreciated.
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Dave Keighan
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:47
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:47
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Jim, > So, assuming I absorb what this book has to offer, do I need another > book to get me up to the 2007 level or should that pretty much work > itself out as I gain experience? Hang on a sec ... I thought you said you were using Turbo Delphi? Turbo Delphi is derived from Delphi 2006. D2006 had several "personalities" it was dismembered and the Turbo products are the result. Turbo Delphi being one of them. > Anything good out there (and is it even really needed) that will > fill in the gaps between 2006 and 2007? Sure ... Delphi 2007 Handbook by Marco Cantu' http://www.lulu.com/content/1069254 -- Dave http://tdelphihobbyist.blogspot.com/
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Dave Keighan
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:59
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:59
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> Hang on a sec ... I thought you said you were using Turbo Delphi? Is missing it's emoticon ... :-) > Turbo Delphi is derived from Delphi 2006. You may not have been aware of this. -- Dave
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Jim Higgins
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:13
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:13
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On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:47:16 -0800, "Dave Keighan" <dave.keighan@gmail.com> wrote: >Jim, > >> So, assuming I absorb what this book has to offer, do I need another >> book to get me up to the 2007 level or should that pretty much work >> itself out as I gain experience? > >Hang on a sec ... I thought you said you were using Turbo Delphi? Turbo >Delphi is derived from Delphi 2006. D2006 had several "personalities" it was >dismembered and the Turbo products are the result. Turbo Delphi being one of >them. Yes, I'm using Turbo Delphi downloaded for free a few weeks ago. I'm new to Delphi and I guess I'm laboring under a misimpression. My understanding from the assorted info on the Borland/Codegear sites that had me running in circles was that free Turbo Delphi is really the latest and greatest Delphi but with certain functionality highly useful to those who use it to make a living disabled. I gathered that the IDE was the latest and that certain language features like adding my own controls were locked up. Buy a key and apply it to the Turbo Delphi and have the latest and greatest without additional downloads. Or so I gathered at the time. So if it's just Delphi 2006, or a subset or "personality" (I don't know quite what that means) of it, and the earlier Delphi 2006 book recommendation is all I need, then I'm good to go because it's on order. If something additional is needed to gain understanding of all features, then I'm looking for more recommendations for later use. (Thanks for the pointer to the Cant� book if I ever get that far.) Can you (or anyone) point me to a page on the Borland/Codegear sites that will clear up my misunderstandings about what I have here? Hopefully with some detail as to the differences between Turbo Delphi and Delphi 2006? I spent time on the Codegear site and about all I got for it was dizzy from chasing around in circles. I'll certainly try again since now I know I got the wrong impression before, but a pointer sure would be nice. Thanks!
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Caleb Hattingh
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:03
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:03
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Ed wrote: > Hi, > > 3) It's SLOW as heck searching for items. The old winhelp > system? It was faster. My shortcut to get to the info I usually look for is this: ms-help://borland.bds5/devcommon/languageguidepart_xml.html There is no simply shortcut to a contents page for just the VCL (that I know of), because each unit seems to have its own entry, for example, StrUtils: ms-help://borland.bds5/delphivclwin32/StrUtils.html You can, however, browse to each of the VCL controls from the Contents pane on the LHS of the help screen. IMO there are three primary problems with the new help: 1) Even though all the old information is in there somewhere, there is a massive amount of additional information that many native Win32 developers will hardly use. This seems to make searching difficult, because now search terms get many more hits which are often false positives. 2) In the old days, selecting a keyword or type and hitting F1 would produce specific help for that item nearly instantly. This is no longer the case. 3) Not only is the launching of dexplore slow, but it is a RAM munching behemoth, and it often seems to persist in task manager even after Delphi is closed. The "snappiness" of the help is gone.
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Brad White
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:17
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:17
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Jim Higgins formulated the question : > Yes, I'm using Turbo Delphi downloaded for free a few weeks ago. > > I'm new to Delphi and I guess I'm laboring under a misimpression. Welcome! Feel free to ask questions on the newsgroups. People here are *very* helpful. > My > understanding from the assorted info on the Borland/Codegear sites > that had me running in circles was that free Turbo Delphi is really > the latest and greatest Delphi but with certain functionality highly > useful to those who use it to make a living disabled. I gathered that > the IDE was the latest and that certain language features like adding > my own controls were locked up. Buy a key and apply it to the Turbo > Delphi and have the latest and greatest without additional downloads. > Or so I gathered at the time. That was true when they wrote it. It hasn't been kept up to date. > > So if it's just Delphi 2006, or a subset or "personality" (I don't > know quite what that means) of it, and the earlier Delphi 2006 book > recommendation is all I need, then I'm good to go because it's on > order. If something additional is needed to gain understanding of all > features, then I'm looking for more recommendations for later use. > (Thanks for the pointer to the Cant� book if I ever get that far.) > There is not Turbo for D2007 yet, so it seems clear that you have the 2006 version. HTH, Brad.
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Simon Beesley
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 11:14
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 11:14
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Hi, > To be fair, I think it was Borland's doing on the BDS2006 help issue. > I don't know the help system with D8 and D2005, but between D7 and > D2006, Borland took six steps back. CG is trying to recover from that > help (or lack of) negative progression. > > Edmund This is simply not true. D2005's help system is not as good as D7's but very much better than D2007's. Most importantly, you can actually use it. So this can't be blamed on Borland. This whole thing would be a lot less infuriating if CodeGear would just admit the scale of their blunder, and would give up this kind of mealy-mouthed excuse-making, and then make a public commitment to putting matter right. Simon
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Dave Keighan
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:30
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:30
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Jim, > Can you (or anyone) point me to a page on the Borland/Codegear sites > that will clear up my misunderstandings about what I have here? Sorry to have dropped out of the conversation but I've been away. Everything sorted? -- Dave
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Dave Keighan
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:26
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:26
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Jim, > Would someone like to play the tutorial at the URL below and verify > (or not) that farther than about 1:40 into it it can't be resumed > after a pause? Not a problem with it. Paused before, at [well, near] and after 1:40 - no problem. Jumped around in it, paused - still ran fine. -- Dave
Re: RAD 2007 documentation
Author: Dave Keighan
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:37
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:37
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Jim, > And following up to myself... why it takes my son in another state a > number of clicks to get it to restart on his new Dell Win Vista > computer. Dell WinXP here. I was using FireFox 2.0 ... dunno. I did manage to get it to stall this time - at the link you gave. Don't know if it was moving the slider that caused it or not. Can stall it every time now. Have you tried down-loading the zips and running them on your machine? http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/index.php?p=26687 [the one you are having problems with is 60MB] I just had a go at the download and it wasn't any better. Running the swf file located in the zip in a SWF player, worked great. I tried out this one: http://www.eolsoft.com/freeware/flash_movie_player/?fmp Pause - Play is toggle space-bar. Setting View to No scale seemed to work the best for me - looked blurry otherwise. Toggle off play-list editor - bottom tool-bar. A lot of bother eh? Be nice if it just worked as advertised :) -- Dave http://tdelphihobbyist.blogspot.com/
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