🚀 go-pugleaf

Hi Jitender,


"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message 
news:44c9c986$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> I am in the process of defining a best possible technical solution to 
> replace legacy Delphi 3rd party controls in existing product.
>
> I am targetting the intermediate stage build in VCL.NET. So if I import 
> .NET 3rd party control (Say Xtragrid/Essential grid) in VCL.NET for one of 
> the control replacement, I think I will be able to move it to .NET 
> platform C# easily.
>
> Issue's that I can see with 3rd party .NET controls to be able to work in 
> VCL.NET platform:
>
> *All the control specific properties are not shown when you place import 
> control on VCL.NET Form.
> *All the design time features of these 3rd party .NET control to configure 
> properties placed on VCL.NET form (in-place configuration) are missing. 
> Say example:
> *3rd party .NET designer, control customization design-time feature
> totally not avaialble.
> *As soon as I place a 3rd party .NETcontrol on VCL.NET form it is loosing 
> its XP style appearance. I.e. it's becoming a basic control look(bland).
>
> If possible, please try to answer this direct questions that will help me 
> to come out with a feasible solution.
>
> *Do 3rd party .NET controls that primarily developed or targeted for .NET 
> plaform(C#) can still work in Delphi VCL.NET?

Yes, they can. Although sometimes it takes some amount of hair-pulling, but 
it can be made to work.

> *Is Xtragrid control doesn't support the VCL.NET Delphi 2006 underlying 
> architecture that its standard VCL.NET control supports.

It doesn't, that's what the Winform Control Import Wizard is for. Also if 
possible you can consider ExpressQuantumGrid from the same vendor, they have 
a native VCL.NET version and it's very similar to XtraGrid.

>
> 1. Am I trying something which is not a technically feasible solution? 
> That is, trying to import a .NET 3rd party control which is
> targeted for Visual studio .NET development (C#.NET based).
>
> 2. Is 3rd party .NET control targeted for Visual Studio .NET development 
> (using C#) still work in VCL.NET platform?
>
> 3. Is the Winform control Import wizard works for 3rd party .NET based 
> control (I.e Visual Studio) import process?

It's feasible, yes and yes.

>
> 4. Is this Winform control Import wizard works only for standard Windows 
> form controls (C#) import process?

No, it works with any control which inherit System.Windows.Forms.Control.

>
> 5. Is there any utility available from Borland that converts VCL win32 
> application to VCL.NET?

No, you should do it all by yourself.

Regards,
Arie 

Is .NET based 3rd party controls like Xtragrid or Essential Grid tested in VCL.NET platform?

As I don't find any general issues with these controls in VS.NET (C#) for which this control was targetted(Developed).

regards,
Jitender

"Arie Zilberstein" <azilberstein@mercury.com> wrote:
>Hi Jitender,
>
>
>"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message 
>news:44c9c986$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>
>> I am in the process of defining a best possible technical solution to 
>> replace legacy Delphi 3rd party controls in existing product.
>>
>> I am targetting the intermediate stage build in VCL.NET. So if I import 
>> .NET 3rd party control (Say Xtragrid/Essential grid) in VCL.NET for one of 
>> the control replacement, I think I will be able to move it to .NET 
>> platform C# easily.
>>
>> Issue's that I can see with 3rd party .NET controls to be able to work in 
>> VCL.NET platform:
>>
>> *All the control specific properties are not shown when you place import 
>> control on VCL.NET Form.
>> *All the design time features of these 3rd party .NET control to configure 
>> properties placed on VCL.NET form (in-place configuration) are missing. 
>> Say example:
>> *3rd party .NET designer, control customization design-time feature
>> totally not avaialble.
>> *As soon as I place a 3rd party .NETcontrol on VCL.NET form it is loosing 
>> its XP style appearance. I.e. it's becoming a basic control look(bland).
>>
>> If possible, please try to answer this direct questions that will help me 
>> to come out with a feasible solution.
>>
>> *Do 3rd party .NET controls that primarily developed or targeted for .NET 
>> plaform(C#) can still work in Delphi VCL.NET?
>
>Yes, they can. Although sometimes it takes some amount of hair-pulling, but 
>it can be made to work.
>
>> *Is Xtragrid control doesn't support the VCL.NET Delphi 2006 underlying 
>> architecture that its standard VCL.NET control supports.
>
>It doesn't, that's what the Winform Control Import Wizard is for. Also if 
>possible you can consider ExpressQuantumGrid from the same vendor, they have 
>a native VCL.NET version and it's very similar to XtraGrid.
>
>>
>> 1. Am I trying something which is not a technically feasible solution? 
>> That is, trying to import a .NET 3rd party control which is
>> targeted for Visual studio .NET development (C#.NET based).
>>
>> 2. Is 3rd party .NET control targeted for Visual Studio .NET development 
>> (using C#) still work in VCL.NET platform?
>>
>> 3. Is the Winform control Import wizard works for 3rd party .NET based 
>> control (I.e Visual Studio) import process?
>
>It's feasible, yes and yes.
>
>>
>> 4. Is this Winform control Import wizard works only for standard Windows 
>> form controls (C#) import process?
>
>No, it works with any control which inherit System.Windows.Forms.Control.
>
>>
>> 5. Is there any utility available from Borland that converts VCL win32 
>> application to VCL.NET?
>
>No, you should do it all by yourself.
>
>Regards,
>Arie 
>
>

I'm using XtraTreeList (from the same vendor as XtraGrid) with success in 
VCL.NET.

However, it does take a lot of workarounds and headaches to get it to work 
propertly, so be warned.


"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message 
news:44cdff12$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
>
> Is .NET based 3rd party controls like Xtragrid or Essential Grid tested in 
> VCL.NET platform?
>
> As I don't find any general issues with these controls in VS.NET (C#) for 
> which this control was targetted(Developed).
>
> regards,
> Jitender
>
> "Arie Zilberstein" <azilberstein@mercury.com> wrote:
>>Hi Jitender,
>>
>>
>>"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message
>>news:44c9c986$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>>
>>> I am in the process of defining a best possible technical solution to
>>> replace legacy Delphi 3rd party controls in existing product.
>>>
>>> I am targetting the intermediate stage build in VCL.NET. So if I import
>>> .NET 3rd party control (Say Xtragrid/Essential grid) in VCL.NET for one 
>>> of
>>> the control replacement, I think I will be able to move it to .NET
>>> platform C# easily.
>>>
>>> Issue's that I can see with 3rd party .NET controls to be able to work 
>>> in
>>> VCL.NET platform:
>>>
>>> *All the control specific properties are not shown when you place import
>>> control on VCL.NET Form.
>>> *All the design time features of these 3rd party .NET control to 
>>> configure
>>> properties placed on VCL.NET form (in-place configuration) are missing.
>>> Say example:
>>> *3rd party .NET designer, control customization design-time feature
>>> totally not avaialble.
>>> *As soon as I place a 3rd party .NETcontrol on VCL.NET form it is 
>>> loosing
>>> its XP style appearance. I.e. it's becoming a basic control look(bland).
>>>
>>> If possible, please try to answer this direct questions that will help 
>>> me
>>> to come out with a feasible solution.
>>>
>>> *Do 3rd party .NET controls that primarily developed or targeted for 
>>> .NET
>>> plaform(C#) can still work in Delphi VCL.NET?
>>
>>Yes, they can. Although sometimes it takes some amount of hair-pulling, 
>>but
>>it can be made to work.
>>
>>> *Is Xtragrid control doesn't support the VCL.NET Delphi 2006 underlying
>>> architecture that its standard VCL.NET control supports.
>>
>>It doesn't, that's what the Winform Control Import Wizard is for. Also if
>>possible you can consider ExpressQuantumGrid from the same vendor, they 
>>have
>>a native VCL.NET version and it's very similar to XtraGrid.
>>
>>>
>>> 1. Am I trying something which is not a technically feasible solution?
>>> That is, trying to import a .NET 3rd party control which is
>>> targeted for Visual studio .NET development (C#.NET based).
>>>
>>> 2. Is 3rd party .NET control targeted for Visual Studio .NET development
>>> (using C#) still work in VCL.NET platform?
>>>
>>> 3. Is the Winform control Import wizard works for 3rd party .NET based
>>> control (I.e Visual Studio) import process?
>>
>>It's feasible, yes and yes.
>>
>>>
>>> 4. Is this Winform control Import wizard works only for standard Windows
>>> form controls (C#) import process?
>>
>>No, it works with any control which inherit System.Windows.Forms.Control.
>>
>>>
>>> 5. Is there any utility available from Borland that converts VCL win32
>>> application to VCL.NET?
>>
>>No, you should do it all by yourself.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Arie
>>
>>
> 

Hi Arie,

Thanks for response. 

I got to know that Xtragrid design-time functionality (Xtragrid designer, Level Designer and Band and Columns customization design-time feature) is not possible to code at run-time, also it is not present at design-time in VCL.NET form) as the control designer are primarily targetted for VS.NET development.

I want to know what workaround you have used so that I can switch to .NET based Essential grid control to see whether it will in VCL.NET platform.

regards,
Jitender


"Arie Zilberstein" <azilberstein@mercury.com> wrote:
>I'm using XtraTreeList (from the same vendor as XtraGrid) with success in 
>VCL.NET.
>
>However, it does take a lot of workarounds and headaches to get it to work 
>propertly, so be warned.
>
>
>"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message 
>news:44cdff12$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>
>>
>> Is .NET based 3rd party controls like Xtragrid or Essential Grid tested in 
>> VCL.NET platform?
>>
>> As I don't find any general issues with these controls in VS.NET (C#) for 
>> which this control was targetted(Developed).
>>
>> regards,
>> Jitender
>>
>> "Arie Zilberstein" <azilberstein@mercury.com> wrote:
>>>Hi Jitender,
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message
>>>news:44c9c986$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>>>
>>>> I am in the process of defining a best possible technical solution to
>>>> replace legacy Delphi 3rd party controls in existing product.
>>>>
>>>> I am targetting the intermediate stage build in VCL.NET. So if I import
>>>> .NET 3rd party control (Say Xtragrid/Essential grid) in VCL.NET for one 
>>>> of
>>>> the control replacement, I think I will be able to move it to .NET
>>>> platform C# easily.
>>>>
>>>> Issue's that I can see with 3rd party .NET controls to be able to work 
>>>> in
>>>> VCL.NET platform:
>>>>
>>>> *All the control specific properties are not shown when you place import
>>>> control on VCL.NET Form.
>>>> *All the design time features of these 3rd party .NET control to 
>>>> configure
>>>> properties placed on VCL.NET form (in-place configuration) are missing.
>>>> Say example:
>>>> *3rd party .NET designer, control customization design-time feature
>>>> totally not avaialble.
>>>> *As soon as I place a 3rd party .NETcontrol on VCL.NET form it is 
>>>> loosing
>>>> its XP style appearance. I.e. it's becoming a basic control look(bland).
>>>>
>>>> If possible, please try to answer this direct questions that will help 
>>>> me
>>>> to come out with a feasible solution.
>>>>
>>>> *Do 3rd party .NET controls that primarily developed or targeted for 
>>>> .NET
>>>> plaform(C#) can still work in Delphi VCL.NET?
>>>
>>>Yes, they can. Although sometimes it takes some amount of hair-pulling, 
>>>but
>>>it can be made to work.
>>>
>>>> *Is Xtragrid control doesn't support the VCL.NET Delphi 2006 underlying
>>>> architecture that its standard VCL.NET control supports.
>>>
>>>It doesn't, that's what the Winform Control Import Wizard is for. Also if
>>>possible you can consider ExpressQuantumGrid from the same vendor, they 
>>>have
>>>a native VCL.NET version and it's very similar to XtraGrid.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Am I trying something which is not a technically feasible solution?
>>>> That is, trying to import a .NET 3rd party control which is
>>>> targeted for Visual studio .NET development (C#.NET based).
>>>>
>>>> 2. Is 3rd party .NET control targeted for Visual Studio .NET development
>>>> (using C#) still work in VCL.NET platform?
>>>>
>>>> 3. Is the Winform control Import wizard works for 3rd party .NET based
>>>> control (I.e Visual Studio) import process?
>>>
>>>It's feasible, yes and yes.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Is this Winform control Import wizard works only for standard Windows
>>>> form controls (C#) import process?
>>>
>>>No, it works with any control which inherit System.Windows.Forms.Control.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5. Is there any utility available from Borland that converts VCL win32
>>>> application to VCL.NET?
>>>
>>>No, you should do it all by yourself.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Arie
>>>
>>>
>> 
>
>

Rather than generalities, I will ask very specific's behind the question that I have raised:

The advantage I thought I will get using Essential Grid/XtraGrid (.NET based control imported in VCL.NET) is that I will move to .NET (C#) easily at later stage from the intermediate VCL.NET build.

Question 1:
I don't see any control specific properties of 3rd party .NET controls such as Xtragrid/EssentialGrid whereas I can able to see only properties that are usually visible for all the controls in Delphi 2006 say standard/Win32 etc. delphi controls.

Question 2:
The vendor confirmed that designer (XtraGrid Design-time-Xtragrid designer, Level Designer and Band and Columns customization design-time) feature are not implementable in VCL.NET as they have built it specifically for VS.NET platform. I have asked the vendor to explain why it is not possible in runtime.

EssentialGrid also has design-time feature such as Gridboundcolumn editor to add columns and configure each column properties individually with StyleInfo. But I am not able to create the equivalent code of VS.NET (C#) for this functionality in VCL.NET.

Question 3:
I get an error when I assign Datasource property of Essential grid with a Datasource (TDatasource- with ADOConnection and ADODataset or ADODB) on Delphi VCL.NET form(nfm file). The exception message is "BadDataSourceForComplexBinding". 

Whereas for VCL.NET based DBgrid control/data-aware controls the datasource is working fine.

Question 4:
The controls that I would like to know whether works in VCL.NET are Xtragrid control and Essential Grid control.

I am sure there are some light weight Winform .NET controls works in VCL.NET using this wizard.

Basically, both XtraGrid & Essential Grid is targetted for .NET (C#.NET) development and it is working fine.
 
Am I still going in right direction which is technically feasible or do you think I have to use specific Grid for VCL.NET i.e. ExpressQuantumGrid and target for C# based Grid (Essential Grid/XtraGrid) control at later stage of development.

regards,
Jitender



"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Arie,
>
>Thanks for response. 
>
>I got to know that Xtragrid design-time functionality (Xtragrid designer, Level Designer and Band and Columns customization design-time feature) is not possible to code at run-time, also it is not present at design-time in VCL.NET form) as the control designer are primarily targetted for VS.NET development.
>
>I want to know what workaround you have used so that I can switch to .NET based Essential grid control to see whether it will in VCL.NET platform.
>
>regards,
>Jitender
>
>
>"Arie Zilberstein" <azilberstein@mercury.com> wrote:
>>I'm using XtraTreeList (from the same vendor as XtraGrid) with success in 
>>VCL.NET.
>>
>>However, it does take a lot of workarounds and headaches to get it to work 
>>propertly, so be warned.
>>
>>
>>"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message 
>>news:44cdff12$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Is .NET based 3rd party controls like Xtragrid or Essential Grid tested in 
>>> VCL.NET platform?
>>>
>>> As I don't find any general issues with these controls in VS.NET (C#) for 
>>> which this control was targetted(Developed).
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Jitender
>>>
>>> "Arie Zilberstein" <azilberstein@mercury.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi Jitender,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:44c9c986$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> I am in the process of defining a best possible technical solution to
>>>>> replace legacy Delphi 3rd party controls in existing product.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am targetting the intermediate stage build in VCL.NET. So if I import
>>>>> .NET 3rd party control (Say Xtragrid/Essential grid) in VCL.NET for one 
>>>>> of
>>>>> the control replacement, I think I will be able to move it to .NET
>>>>> platform C# easily.
>>>>>
>>>>> Issue's that I can see with 3rd party .NET controls to be able to work 
>>>>> in
>>>>> VCL.NET platform:
>>>>>
>>>>> *All the control specific properties are not shown when you place import
>>>>> control on VCL.NET Form.
>>>>> *All the design time features of these 3rd party .NET control to 
>>>>> configure
>>>>> properties placed on VCL.NET form (in-place configuration) are missing.
>>>>> Say example:
>>>>> *3rd party .NET designer, control customization design-time feature
>>>>> totally not avaialble.
>>>>> *As soon as I place a 3rd party .NETcontrol on VCL.NET form it is 
>>>>> loosing
>>>>> its XP style appearance. I.e. it's becoming a basic control look(bland).
>>>>>
>>>>> If possible, please try to answer this direct questions that will help 
>>>>> me
>>>>> to come out with a feasible solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Do 3rd party .NET controls that primarily developed or targeted for 
>>>>> .NET
>>>>> plaform(C#) can still work in Delphi VCL.NET?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, they can. Although sometimes it takes some amount of hair-pulling, 
>>>>but
>>>>it can be made to work.
>>>>
>>>>> *Is Xtragrid control doesn't support the VCL.NET Delphi 2006 underlying
>>>>> architecture that its standard VCL.NET control supports.
>>>>
>>>>It doesn't, that's what the Winform Control Import Wizard is for. Also if
>>>>possible you can consider ExpressQuantumGrid from the same vendor, they 
>>>>have
>>>>a native VCL.NET version and it's very similar to XtraGrid.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Am I trying something which is not a technically feasible solution?
>>>>> That is, trying to import a .NET 3rd party control which is
>>>>> targeted for Visual studio .NET development (C#.NET based).
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Is 3rd party .NET control targeted for Visual Studio .NET development
>>>>> (using C#) still work in VCL.NET platform?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Is the Winform control Import wizard works for 3rd party .NET based
>>>>> control (I.e Visual Studio) import process?
>>>>
>>>>It's feasible, yes and yes.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Is this Winform control Import wizard works only for standard Windows
>>>>> form controls (C#) import process?
>>>>
>>>>No, it works with any control which inherit System.Windows.Forms.Control.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Is there any utility available from Borland that converts VCL win32
>>>>> application to VCL.NET?
>>>>
>>>>No, you should do it all by yourself.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Arie
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>>
>>
>

Hi Jitender,


"Jitender" <jitender.mahinderkar@ge.com> wrote in message 
news:44cf60fe$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> Rather than generalities, I will ask very specific's behind the question 
> that I have raised:
>
> The advantage I thought I will get using Essential Grid/XtraGrid (.NET 
> based control imported in VCL.NET) is that I will move to .NET (C#) easily 
> at later stage from the intermediate VCL.NET build.

This advantage is real. I suggest that you consider going to C# right now 
instead of VCL.NET. This means that you'll program the form hosting the 
XtraGrid as a WinForms form. After compiling the C# code into an assembly, 
you can reference this assembly from Delphi.NET and display this form 
straight away, even if it's not a VCL.NET control.

You only need the Winforms Control Import Wizard if you need to host a 
Winforms control inside a VCL.NET TForm (or TControl). If your entire form 
is in WinForms, you don't need the wizard.

> Question 1:
> I don't see any control specific properties of 3rd party .NET controls 
> such as Xtragrid/EssentialGrid whereas I can able to see only properties 
> that are usually visible for all the controls in Delphi 2006 say 
> standard/Win32 etc. delphi controls.

After invoking the wizard, you end up with a class such as TImpXtraGrid. 
This class exposes a public property Control. You can acquire this Control, 
cast it into the actual type, XtraGrid in this case, and from there you have 
full access to all its properties, methods, events and fields.

> Question 2:
> The vendor confirmed that designer (XtraGrid Design-time-Xtragrid 
> designer, Level Designer and Band and Columns customization design-time) 
> feature are not implementable in VCL.NET as they have built it 
> specifically for VS.NET platform. I have asked the vendor to explain why 
> it is not possible in runtime.
> EssentialGrid also has design-time feature such as Gridboundcolumn editor 
> to add columns and configure each column properties individually with 
> StyleInfo. But I am not able to create the equivalent code of VS.NET (C#) 
> for this functionality in VCL.NET.

It's true; you lose almost all design-time support. But all the designer 
does it injects code into the InitializeComponent() method of the Winforms 
class. So what I usually do is, design the control using C#, then look at 
the resulting code in InitializeComponent, and translate it into Delphi. I 
find it hard to believe that there are things that you can do only in 
design-time, but not in run-time.


> Question 3:
> I get an error when I assign Datasource property of Essential grid with a 
> Datasource (TDatasource- with ADOConnection and ADODataset or ADODB) on 
> Delphi VCL.NET form(nfm file). The exception message is 
> "BadDataSourceForComplexBinding".
>
> Whereas for VCL.NET based DBgrid control/data-aware controls the 
> datasource is working fine.

Yes, all WinForms controls expect a DataSet and you can't give them a 
TDataSet. You must convert the TDataSet into a DataSet for this to work, or 
just to work with a DataSet instead. You can use the TADONETConnector class 
to encapsulate a DataSet into a TDataSet. I don't know how to do it easily 
the other way around.

>
> Question 4:
> The controls that I would like to know whether works in VCL.NET are 
> Xtragrid control and Essential Grid control.
>
> I am sure there are some light weight Winform .NET controls works in 
> VCL.NET using this wizard.
>
> Basically, both XtraGrid & Essential Grid is targetted for .NET (C#.NET) 
> development and it is working fine.
>
> Am I still going in right direction which is technically feasible or do 
> you think I have to use specific Grid for VCL.NET i.e. ExpressQuantumGrid 
> and target for C# based Grid (Essential Grid/XtraGrid) control at later 
> stage of development.

As I said, using WinForms controls in VCL.NET can be done, but it involves a 
non-trivial amount of custom conversions, workarounds, translations and 
time. If you can't afford it, my advice is:  either (a) stick to VCL.NET 
controls, or (b) use WinForms controls only with C# Winforms projects.

Hope that helps,
Arie