🚀 go-pugleaf

Ok,

I see nearly NOBODY does use IB and MS IE 4 or am I the only one who get�s
probs?
I see too, that Borland/Inprise does not care any more about their
customers. There is NOTHING, no help, no comment about the fact that IB
seems not to be supported any more. No Patch to work with MS IE 4. Intra
Builder  seem sto bee a dead product.

It seems that Inprise does not want to change anything in this case.

We'll make our descisons about these facts

THX

Christian Samtleben
SAMSoft� Samtleben & Meisel GbR

Christian Samtleben schrieb in Nachricht <6q46rp$3qt1@forums.borland.com>...
>Hi,
>
>how do you accomplish the use of MS IE 4 with IB? Who does "Button_OnClick"
>events? And how? � realized that the code generated by IB for MS IE 4 does
>not work with MS IE 4. The OnClick-Events do not work. The code generated
>for Netscape 4 will work with MS IE 4. Is there any way to make IB to treat
>MS IE 4 as Netscape 4?
>I managed Button OnClick with an image and a HTML-Text-field:
>
><a href="javascript:Button_onImageClick()"><IMG SRC =
>"/ibapps/shdbpio/_ButtonGIF" ALT="[Button]" border=0></a>
>
>The "Button-onImageClick" function has to be exportet explicit.
>
>Hey Borland / Inprise do you have any answer? Do you care about your
>customers any more?
>
>Hope to get some answers
>
>Christian
>
>

I've been having the same problem. On serverclick events work, as do client
side
Onload events.
Onclick and OnChange (for the select component) do nothing

I second your request for assistance!


Christian Samtleben wrote in message <6qs244$4j79@forums.borland.com>...
>Ok,
>
>I see nearly NOBODY does use IB and MS IE 4 or am I the only one who get�s
>probs?
>I see too, that Borland/Inprise does not care any more about their
>customers. There is NOTHING, no help, no comment about the fact that IB
>seems not to be supported any more. No Patch to work with MS IE 4. Intra
>Builder  seem sto bee a dead product.

See the recent post in the 'non-technical' newsgroup. Maybe this will soon
be fixed. Well, we can hope can't we?

>
>It seems that Inprise does not want to change anything in this case.
>
>We'll make our descisons about these facts
>

I can understand a company deciding to make market changes.

I can understand a company deciding to make product changes.

However, I cannot understand simply ignoring a product which was brought
to market and purchased in good faith by trusting customers.

IntraBuilder had promise as an extremely useful product.  However, that
is not the point.  It seemed to work acceptably, though not completely,
until MS changed the definition of what their browser would support. 
This change was not Inprise's fault.

But Inprise (Borland) dropped support for this product long before IE 4
was introduced.  My personal disappointment and concern is surrounding
this behavior.  Whether or not Inprise wishes to continue development of
this product as is, or whether it wants to merge it into other products,
or drop it completely are decisions about the future.  IntraBuilder 1.5
is *not* a future product.

Why is there no support for an existing product?  Forget about answering
questions about the future for a moment.  Where are the answers for
questions about the current product?

Ben, Bill, is this considered acceptable within the new Inprise
organization?  Market and release a product.  If that product isn't the
profit maker it was hoped to be, just walk away and abandon support for
it?

It is this that continues to erode my confidence in using Inprise
products.  As an example, what incentive do we have to use new
technologies that Inprise brings to market when they too could as easily
be abandoned if they don't live up to expectations?  We would then wait
a couple of releases until they "catch on".  However, during that time
of waiting, both we, the customer community, and Inprise suffer.  Failed
product lines become an almost self fulfilling prophesy.

Your recent demonstration of strength behind Delphi 4 has been
impressive, and has shown some merit for renewed confidence with
Inprise.  However, that only demonstrates that the "stable" product
lines will receive this type of treatment.

To the immediate point.  I don't think many of the IntraBuilder
customers are wanting Inprise to rework the product and include many new
features at this point.  At this point, they are simply wanting Inprise
to support the existing product, and correct the existing weaknesses to
a point where it can be used effectively.  In keeping with that, the MS
IE4 introduction is causing problems.  Since your development teams have
had to address the IE4 issues for other products, might they be able to
address that one easily enough in order to allow IntraBuilder customers
to continue to use the product they purchased.

More broadly again, what is the correct manner to obtain support for
IntraBuilder for customers who are trying to use the product and are
needing help?  I've seen one TeamB member answering questions in the
IntraBuilder forums.  Perhaps there are others, but the level of support
here is continuing to prove difficult to defend to corporate management
(this relates to the conversations I've had regarding the recent D4
maintenance release).

Please, consider the issues above.

-- 
Mark Richter
eMCee Software

Mark Richter wrote:

> But Inprise (Borland) dropped support for this product long before IE 4
> was introduced.

Mark, we have not dropped support for IntraBuilder.  Our supportofferings
for IntraBuilder have not changed in the last year or two.

> More broadly again, what is the correct manner to obtain support for
> IntraBuilder for customers who are trying to use the product and are
> needing help?

The Inprise Assist folks are here to answer exactly this question.  You,
or anyone else, can reach them at (800)523-7070.  They will explain
our various support offerings.

> I've seen one TeamB member answering questions in the
> IntraBuilder forums.  Perhaps there are others, but the level of support
> here is continuing to prove difficult to defend to corporate management

You're talking about Ken, the IntraBuilder TeamB'er.  He was on the
IntraBuilder develpment team, so we are fortunate to have him.  Thanks,
Ken.

If by level of support you mean the number of users posting,
remember that these are user-supported forums, hosted by us.  The
products with a very large number of users also have large numbers
of newsgroup participants.  IntraBuilder, in my opinion, lacks that
critical mass of users required to attract folks to the newsgroup in
those same large numbers that the Delphi, C and VdB groups enjoy.
You all can help change this by contributing not just questions, but
answers to other users' questions, which will make this a more
valuable newsgroup to visit.  I have seen that you, Mark, have
done some of this already.

I hope this addresses some of your concerns.  Most importantly,
please see that we certainly have not "dropped support for this
product," as you wrote.

Bill (Inprise)

Bill,

Thanks for your response.

When I referred to the level of support for IntraBuilder, I was not
referring to paying a fee to determine how to work around known issues.

Once issues are known, they should be made available to developers
without them having to pay for the information.  This is my personal
opinion, of course.

Further, information about the future of IntraBuilder has been almost
non-existent.  What I've heard has come from an executive chat
(IntraBuilder will be folded into Application Server) and an article on
Vdb (IntraBuilder technology will be merged into the next release of
dBase).  Neither of these are official, and the reports seem to conflict
with each other.  The result is confusion.

As recently as six months ago, the IntraBuilder forums were much more
active.  Developers were exchanging information with each other with
some frequency.  However, recent announcements and further "lack" of
information has left the IntraBuilder forums almost inactive.  In other
words, I've watched the forum activity decline.  I personally pop in
here occassionally just so other developers might at least get some sort
of response.

My definition of lack of support involves developers getting answers. 
While you point out that these are developer supported forums, I seem to
remember noticing that IntraBuilder forums messages are not available to
search on the Inprise site.  Other product forums are being archived and
made available for searching.  Everything I've read over the past few
months suggest that Inprise's support for IntraBuilder has been
declining.

I don't mean to seem offensive or accusatory.  But I am trying to
emphasize and underscore both the impression projected by Inprise, and
the opinions formed by your customers.

While these may be developer supported forums, your customers come here
for answers for questions about their licensed products.  Other
developers cannot offer answers to questions about issues which they
have no control or knowledge.  Only Inprise folks can do that.

Additionally, since Inprise is looking to penetrate new markets and
revise it's previous image, it would seem that Inprise folks would be
eager to at least provide an attempt at answering these questions.

My suggestion would be to have someone prepared to answer questions
regarding the current and future plans for IntraBuilder, and known
issues with their work arounds, or the fact that they cannot be worked
around (such as is probably the case with IE4).

The extra costs to Inprise will be easily absorbed into the increased
revenue this "good will" would surely bring.  On the other hand, the
costs to Inprise in terms of lost revenue can only be estimated.  And
from conversations I've had with folks within the very corporations you
wish to add to your market, the current opinion is that Inprise is still
too risky to adopt in many cases.  More specifically, the manner in
which IntraBuilder has been recently treated has been cited in
conversations as the manifestation of the risk potential with choosing
to use an Inprise product.

We no longer use IntraBuilder for customer projects.  Our internal
projects will not run on two machines, one upgraded to IE4 over Win95
and the other running Win98.

The problems with IE4 do not appear to be the fault of Inprise. 
However, some attention and assistance from Inprise would be
appreciated.

The damage done may seem inconsequential, but one of the IntraBuilder
projects I am aware of has recently been replaced by active server
pages.

Again, thanks for responding.  And, please, accept my comments in the
spirit of business they are intended.

-- 
Mark Richter
eMCee Software

Mark Richter wrote:

> I don't mean to seem offensive or accusatory.  But I am trying to
> emphasize and underscore both the impression projected by Inprise, and
> the opinions formed by your customers.
>
> Again, thanks for responding.  And, please, accept my comments in the
> spirit of business they are intended.

Mark, thanks for a thoughtful and valuable post.  With one minor
exception, I generally agree with what you say.  My exception is
to the part that says we can't search the IntraBuilder area of our
web site; we can.  Maybe that was not true at some point, but,
I said, this is very minor.

As to the more important parts of your post, I have made many
of the same observations.  I also hace seen the newsgroup traffic
in the IntraBuilder groups decline to the point where it is not
nearly as useful a forum as it had once been.  You are not the
only person to mention that the lack of response to questions
about the future of IntraBuilder is having an impact on people's
impression of Inprise in general.

I have not yet heard any statement we have on the future
of the product.  I have been prodding those here who
create such statements, to come up with one.  Most of the
customer  requests I have for such a document, I have gotten
from  these forums.  Yours is among the clearest, most
well-spoken  of the messages I have collected.  I will add it
to the head of my list, and pass it on up the chain.

Thanks again for posting this.  When I have some word to
share with you regarding the future of IntraBuilder, be
assured that I will let you know.

Bill (Inprise)

Bill,

Thanks for the response.

I'm flattered by your appraisal of my comments. <G>

Seriously though, a fairly *bold* move by Inprise might be to accumulate
the e-mail addresses of those who have posted here, and mail any
notifications directly to them.

Sure, you will offend some of them, others will have used "spam proof"
addressses, etc...  But I believe the attempt will go a long way toward
rebuilding relationships between your customers and Inprise.

Please appeal to "those in charge" to not wait too long.  The progress
shown in the Delphi group has had an apparent positive impact.  Time can
work for, or against you on this one.

Naturally, I, and others, would like to see positive news that some of
the IntraBuilder problems will be addressed in the interim (until the
final solution is released).  However, I for one will welcome any news,
regardless.

Again, thanks.

-- 
Mark Richter
eMCee Software