🚀 go-pugleaf

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion.  Point taken RE: applets. Although, I
have worked a few projects where an applet was really the only general solution.

I'm just now starting to focus on Swing after having spent a lot of time with AWT and
am in the process of gathering "foundation" information if you'll pardon the pun....

Thanks for your input.

Rich Wilkman wrote:

> Ken:
>
> Generally, if you've got an awt item in your UI it'll block the painting of such
> lightweight items as you get from JFC.  This ranges from every single item in the panel to
> dropdowns that hit the heavyweight button below them onscreen.
>
> This is one of the big differences between awt and jfc and when jfc came out there was
> quite a bit written on the topic.  Your best bet is to go to the javasoft site and search
> on "heavyweight".  You'll get quite a few docs and background pieces, etc.
>
> The basic rule of thumb is that you don't mix and match.  It's not as if a single
> heavyweight widget will kill all the painting, but it will certainly block it if the
> painting would happen in or around it's "space".  A couple years ago, when this all was
> really new, the most common side effect people would post about was that they'd see all the
> components from all the pages in a tab control the first time it was painted.
>
> The differences between IE and IE on different platforms (or the same platform with
> different IE versions) are more than enough to cause pain.  Add in the same types of issues
> for NS and you start to see why Applets really aren't that viable in many situations.  Why
> add caring about AppletViewer to that mix? (Though the fact that one does applets would
> indicate a mashchistic tendency with a subtle hatred for ones customers as well <g>).
>
> -Rich
>
> Ken Warner wrote:
>
> > Hi Rich,
> >
> > I would like to focus on what you call "popups" because that seems like
> > an important detail that needs expansion.
> >
> > By "popup" do you mean the painting of the tooltip on the screen?  And when
> > you say, "heavyweight component in your UI that is masking your ability to see them."
> > Explain with a little more detail what you mean please.  Do you mean that if the mouse
> > is hovering over a Swing component, the tooltip won't show if there is an AWT container
> > somewhere at a deeper Z level.   Or do you mean that an AWT component anywhere
> > else in the applet will cause the tooltip to somehow not be painted?
> >
> > This is a new an interesting detail to me.
> >
> > BTW: I have been knocking my head against the differences between IE and NN
> > for over a year now and have intimate and deep knowledge of the pain you speak of.
> > My applet looks one way in the appletviewer, another in NN and yet another way in IE.
> >
> > Arrggghhh!
> >
> > Rich Wilkman wrote:
> >
> > > Ken:
> > >
> > > Josh is mostly correct <g>.
> > >
> > > Actually, with the exception of JBuilder 3.0 Solaris (first all-java edition) and
> > > 3.5, JBuilder has used the version of AppletViewer present in the JDK used by your
> > > project.  There was a brief hiatus during the port where AppletTestBed was the only
> > > option (hence the problems when trying to run JFC based applets with JDK 1.2), but
> > > that was rectified in JB4.
> > >
> > > In all cases, however, AppletViewer is a waste of time for real testing (in or out
> > > of the IDE) once you've got your files laid out.  The main reason being that none of
> > > the Browsers have implemented their Applet support to match AppletViewer.  To avoid
> > > chasing ghosts, the best advice I can give you is to compile your classes into your
> > > staging server location and run from the Browser(s) you need to support.  Once you
> > > are satisfied, archive the classes into whichever archive type satisfies all your
> > > clients, do another quick round of testing and then move the applet from staging to
> > > production.
> > >
> > > Since none of the Browsers supports JFC in any real way without the Plugin and each
> > > Browser still has it's own quirks even when using the Plugin, most of this work
> > > really has to be done outside the IDE.  For things like popups you'll inherit all of
> > > the base JFC bugs for Applications *and* get the added benefit of some painting
> > > decisions made for you by Netscape and Microsoft.
> > >
> > > A quick thought, though, is that your popups are happening just fine but that there
> > > is a heavyweight component in your UI that is masking your ability to see them.
> > > Some quick diagnostic printlns would tell you if the code fragment is at least being
> > > hit.
> > >
> > > -Rich
> > >
> > > Ken Warner wrote:
> > >
> > > > Absolutly correct ... I won't be using the applet viewer to run the
> > > > deployed applet.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm told by reliable sources that JBuilder doesn't use the appletviewer.
> > > >
> > > >      You might try posting the the Sun forums.  The appletviewer has
> > > >      nothing
> > > >      to do with JBuilder.
> > > >
> > > >      -Josh
> > > >
> > > > However, I may want to debug a custom component where I override
> > > > the standard tooltips stuff and make my own tooltips stuff.  And then
> > > > I'll be using whatever JBuilder uses to run the applet as I go through
> > > > the edit-run-debug cycle.  And for that reason I need to know that
> > > > when I'm running my applet and not seeing tooltips, it isn't my fault.
> > > >
> > > > I'm just trying to get my ducks lined up so that I don't chase ghosts.
> > > >
> > > > Rich Wilkman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ken:
> > > > >
> > > > > Probably not, but it's really irrelevant because in the real world you won't
> > > > > be using AppletViewer to run the Applet.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Rich
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken Warner wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Had to repost this again and use twice the bandwidth because I violated
> > > > > > the sacred rule against
> > > > > > crossposting and my previous message was cancelled by the news group
> > > > > > Gray Council.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a Swing applet and I set the tool tip text for a component.  Then
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I test it by running it from the IDE and it runs in the applet viewer.
> > > > > > But
> > > > > > when I hover the mouse over the component, the tool tip doesn't show.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does the appletviewer not show tooltips?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Environment: JBuilder Pro 4.0; WinNT 4.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Ken Warner
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ken Warner
> >
> > --
> > Ken Warner

--
Ken Warner