🚀 go-pugleaf

Paul,

We all fully understand and completely agree on the topic of limitations
of the XYLayout and the power of LayoutManagers and I suggest that
we should not burn cycles explaining them to each other :-). I appreciate
that you have steered the conversation towards XPlatform application
deployment. Your feedback helped me understand my position better.
I would like to attempt to create a little scenario matrix of applicability
of the XYLayout. Please comment if you find me going in the wrong direction.

First, assumptions. I understand that they might be wrong as they are
based only on my experience.

1. I am suggesting that we abstract from the fact that the application
    can be developed on one platform and deployed on the other.

2. Enterprises do use different operating systems (as in your example),
    but more often than not there is no need to run the SAME application
    on all of these systems. Business applications (and maybe I need to 
narrow
    down my definition of a business application as an application that 
supports
    a business workflow, business operations. They mainly consist of various
    data entry forms, reports and/or some "operations control" UI) are 
normally
    deployed on the same platform to make support and maintenance possible.
    I am not suggesting that this is always the case. I am suggesting that 
this is
    a typical deployment scenario. Creative people that "swear by Mac" 
normally
    have nothing to do with 100 phone sales operators that all sit in front 
of the
    same exact machine and use the same exact OS. And in my opinion it is
    not practical to design the phone sales operator application with the 
goal
    that it should look good on the Mac. These people are not getting a Mac,
    nor are they getting an X-Window system of their choice. They are 
probably
    getting the same Terminal Server client or a SunRay appliance. Now as a 
manager
    who is responsible for the development of the applications for the sales 
operator
    you have a choice of spending X amount of time to develop the app using
    XY Layout or spending k*X amount of time to develop a truly XPlatform
    applications that will look good on various 
resolutions/platforms/X-systems, etc ...
    First of all, as Lori wrote, true XPlatform UI development is 
unattainable.
    You are bound to make some compromises. (e.g. I doubt that when you
    are designing a form, you are planning to accommodate fonts over a 
certain size).
    It's a question of how far you are ready to compromise and what you are
    getting in return.

    Now (k) depends on many factors: skills in your dev. team., experience,
    complexity of the UI, but common sense tells us that k > 1 is a fair 
assumption.
    In my opinion if you choose to go with the kX, you are wasting (k-1)X 
amount
    of time which could have been spent elsewhere.

    Also, I can't buy your argument that Java is the wrong language for
    platform-specific applications. Precisely for the same reason that 
Enterprises
   do use different operating systems and it is very costly to have dev. 
teams
   working with different languages and toolsets. I am sure you would gladly
   move a programmer from the project of developing a phone sales app on
   Windows to the project of developing a shipping control application on 
X-Windows,
   or to a project of developing a time-tracking application for your 
creative folk
   on the Mac if you need to reinforce either team.

My intent was to attempt to come up with the applicability matrix, but I am 
afraid
I am running out of time today. I still want to post what I have written so 
far to
stimulate the discussion. If anybody has examples of applicability beyond 
quick
prototyping, please post.

To be continued ... :-)

Tony