🚀 go-pugleaf

"Tony" <aoganesi_a^t_yahoo_._com> wrote:

> Paul,
> 

> 
> First, assumptions. I understand that they might be wrong as they are
> based only on my experience.
> 
> 1. I am suggesting that we abstract from the fact that the application
>     can be developed on one platform and deployed on the other.
>
OK, I'll go with you :)
 
> 2. Enterprises do use different operating systems (as in your example),
>     but more often than not there is no need to run the SAME application
>     on all of these systems. Business applications (and maybe I need to
> narrow
>     down my definition of a business application as an application that
> supports
>     a business workflow, business operations. They mainly consist of
>     various data entry forms, reports and/or some "operations control" UI)
>     are
> normally
>     deployed on the same platform to make support and maintenance
>     possible. I am not suggesting that this is always the case. I am
>     suggesting that
> this is
>     a typical deployment scenario. Creative people that "swear by Mac"
> normally
>     have nothing to do with 100 phone sales operators that all sit in
>     front
> of the
>     same exact machine and use the same exact OS. And in my opinion it is
>     not practical to design the phone sales operator application with the
> goal
>     that it should look good on the Mac. These people are not getting a
>     Mac, nor are they getting an X-Window system of their choice. They are
> probably
>     getting the same Terminal Server client or a SunRay appliance. Now as
>     a
> manager
>     who is responsible for the development of the applications for the
>     sales
> operator
>     you have a choice of spending X amount of time to develop the app
>     using XY Layout or spending k*X amount of time to develop a truly
>     XPlatform applications that will look good on various
> resolutions/platforms/X-systems, etc ...

I understand your scenario here. But the problem with XY layout remains.
Even on the same OS, you are going to have inconsistencies with different
machines that use different monitors and/or Graphics cards. XY uses an
layout that arranged pixels according to the grid. That grid will be drawn
differently, under the restrictions of resolution and/or graphic matrix (at
least that is my experience). Grid bag makes sense, since it adapts to
these changes (also my experience). However, there are several
Layoutmanagers in the open source world that can approximate XY and give
you better results. However, you may lose some of the GUI designer if you
use them. But it might be worthwhile to see how they work.

Here are some of interest:

http://www.softbear.com/people/larry/javalm.htm

Good luck!!
>     First of all, as Lori wrote, true XPlatform UI development is
> unattainable.
>     You are bound to make some compromises. (e.g. I doubt that when you
>     are designing a form, you are planning to accommodate fonts over a
> certain size).
>     It's a question of how far you are ready to compromise and what you
>     are getting in return.
> 
>     Now (k) depends on many factors: skills in your dev. team.,
>     experience, complexity of the UI, but common sense tells us that k > 1
>     is a fair
> assumption.
>     In my opinion if you choose to go with the kX, you are wasting (k-1)X
> amount
>     of time which could have been spent elsewhere.
> 
>     Also, I can't buy your argument that Java is the wrong language for
>     platform-specific applications. Precisely for the same reason that
> Enterprises
>    do use different operating systems and it is very costly to have dev.
> teams
>    working with different languages and toolsets. I am sure you would
>    gladly move a programmer from the project of developing a phone sales
>    app on Windows to the project of developing a shipping control
>    application on
> X-Windows,
>    or to a project of developing a time-tracking application for your
> creative folk
>    on the Mac if you need to reinforce either team.
> 
> My intent was to attempt to come up with the applicability matrix, but I
> am afraid
> I am running out of time today. I still want to post what I have written
> so far to
> stimulate the discussion. If anybody has examples of applicability beyond
> quick
> prototyping, please post.
> 
> To be continued ... :-)
> 
> Tony