🚀 go-pugleaf

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Thanks for the response.

I agree with you about your assessment of the newsgroups. And I did not 
mean to sound so critical of these forums.  I am just frustrated.  
(patience is not one of my virtues ..)

It has just been an experience that seems to be moving slower than expected.

For instance there are no books on the market for JBuilder 4.  I am an 
accomplished Delphi programmer and after reading a couple of Java books 
I was impressed with the language's construct and thought "Hey, Let's 
get started".

I am primarily a database programmer so my objective is to build some 
constructive servlets and client side applets to invoke some RMI etc.  
That's why I started with the client side applets.
I want to move into the JMSE environment A.S.A.P. to learn how to code 
apps for hand held devices.  Ultimately learning how to write an app 
that runs on a palm and talks to database server across the wire.

I could build a C/S architecture using Delphi hands down like I have 
before but wanted to use Java for a couple of reasons. One is that it 
seems to be more web oriented or web ready.  Applets are a testament to 
that.  (amongst the other obvious aspects) Also because it is another 
possibility when it comes to seeking customers or employment.  Even 
though I think Delphi is the best language and the hottest thing since 
sliced bread, I  wonder about it's long term use or it's life span.  I 
recently did a search in the area that I live for jobs (Orange County, 
CA).   On one site Delphi yielded 25 postings and Java yielded over 
500.  That is disheartening as a Delphi programmer.

So when I got started and created an applet with a couple of panels and 
one combo box and was getting three different results using the following ..

1) The Applet viewer in JBuilder
2) The HTML viewer or browser in JBuilder
3) An external browser


I got a bit frustrated.   I have been saying to myself .. "This language 
is Voodoo..".

I guess I am spoiled using Delphi's IDE.  Everything is right there.  
And solid as hell.

Java is not a RAD language.   It is a pain in the &*^% to code and even 
more so to deploy.



Reid

John McGrath [TeamB] wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:39:37 -0800, Reid wrote:
> 
>> I come from a Delphi background and am spoiled I guess when
>> it comes to newsgroup postings.  In the Delphi forums people
>> seemed to be a heck of a lot more involved.
>> 
>> When you posted a question,  if the question was somewhat
>> basic you could expect a response usually within hours.
>> 
>> If you waited two days you were being disrespected. ;)
>> 
>> These jBuilder forums are considerably sloooower.
>> 
>> I posted a simple question about a combobox's drop down
>> canvas being offset and not displaying correctly in an
>> Applet and have had no response.
>> 
>> I searched the few books I bought with no clue.
>> 
>> Support is an important part of learning a language.
>> 
>> When your peers are not involved it makes learning almost
>> impossible.
>> 
>> I just started with java and am already losing faith ...
> 
> 
> Let me make a few observations:
> 
> Your problem has to do with Swing Applets.  I would guess that most 
> people here do not do Applets, and most of those who do Applets do not 
> do so using Swing.  As Rich Wilkman pointed out, starting Java with 
> Applets is probably not a good idea.
> 
> You might try your code in an application rather than an Applet, and 
> see if you have the same problem.  If you do, you will probably get a 
> much better response.
> 
> You are right that the volume in the JBuilder groups is less than that 
> in the Delphi groups.  There are also more Delphi users and more Delphi 
> TeamB members.  I would expect a slightly slower response as a result.
> 
> There are many Java related newsgroups on the net, and fewer Delphi 
> newsgroups.  So it is not surprising that the the Delphi groups here 
> are very active.  But while there are many other Java newsgroups, those 
> that I have seen seem to be full of spam and trolls.  These are by far 
> the best I have found, probably because they are moderated.
> 
> You posted your question in the middle of the holidays, when many 
> people are off doing other things, and there are quite a few less 
> people paying attention to these newsgroups.
> 
> Most of your messages seem to have gotten a response within a day, and 
> some of them seemed pretty helpful.  Both Stephen De Rudder and James 
> Shulz caught your semicolon problem (which I missed, sigh), and Rich 
> Wilkman provided some good advice as well.
> 
> This is not bad for free service provided by volunteers.  If you are 
> willing to pay for the service you may get a quicker response, but I am 
> not sure the results will be better.
> 
> Given all of this, I do not think the fact that you were not happy with 
> the response is an indication that people on the JBuilder groups are 
> less involved.
> 


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<html><head></head><body><br>
Thanks for the response.<br>
<br>
I agree with you about your assessment of the newsgroups. And I did not mean
to sound so critical of these forums.&nbsp; I am just frustrated.&nbsp; (patience is
not one of my virtues ..)<br>
<br>
It has just been an experience that seems to be moving slower than expected.<br>
<br>
For instance there are no books on the market for JBuilder 4.&nbsp; I am an accomplished
Delphi programmer and after reading a couple of Java books I was impressed
with the language's construct and thought "Hey, Let's get started".<br>
<br>
I am primarily a database programmer so my objective is to build some constructive
servlets and client side applets to invoke some RMI etc.&nbsp; That's why I started
with the client side applets.<br>
I want to move into the JMSE environment A.S.A.P. to learn how to code apps
for hand held devices.&nbsp; Ultimately learning how to write an app that runs
on a palm and talks to database server across the wire.<br>
<br>
I could build a C/S architecture using Delphi hands down like I have before
but wanted to use Java for a couple of reasons. One is that it seems to be
more web oriented or web ready.&nbsp; Applets are a testament to that.&nbsp; (amongst
the other obvious aspects) Also because it is another possibility when it
comes to seeking customers or employment.&nbsp; Even though I think Delphi is
the best language and the hottest thing since sliced bread, I&nbsp; wonder about
it's long term use or it's life span.&nbsp; I recently did a search in the area
that I live for jobs (Orange County, CA). &nbsp; On one site Delphi yielded 25
postings and Java yielded over 500.&nbsp; That is disheartening as a Delphi programmer.
<br>
<br>
So when I got started and created an applet with a couple of panels and one
combo box and was getting three different results using the following ..<br>
<br>
1) The Applet viewer in JBuilder<br>
2) The HTML viewer or browser in JBuilder<br>
3) An external browser<br>
<br>
<br>
I got a bit frustrated. &nbsp; I have been saying to myself .. "This language is Voodoo..".<br>
<br>
I guess I am spoiled using Delphi's IDE.&nbsp; Everything is right there.&nbsp; And solid as hell.<br>
<br>
Java is not a RAD language. &nbsp; It is a pain in the &amp;*^% to code and even more so to deploy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Reid<br>
<br>
John McGrath [TeamB] wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MPG.14bb2c11f04bb9bd989e15@forums.borland.com"><pre wrap="">On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:39:37 -0800, Reid wrote:<br><br></pre>
  <blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">I come from a Delphi background and am spoiled I guess when<br>it comes to newsgroup postings.  In the Delphi forums people<br>seemed to be a heck of a lot more involved.<br><br>When you posted a question,  if the question was somewhat<br>basic you could expect a response usually within hours.<br><br>If you waited two days you were being disrespected. ;)<br><br>These jBuilder forums are considerably sloooower.<br><br>I posted a simple question about a combobox's drop down<br>canvas being offset and not displaying correctly in an<br>Applet and have had no response.<br><br>I searched the few books I bought with no clue.<br><br>Support is an important part of learning a language.<br><br>When your peers are not involved it makes learning almost<br>impossible.<br><br>I just started with java and am already losing faith ...<br></pre></blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!----><br>Let me make a few observations:<br><br>Your problem has to do with Swing Applets.  I would guess that most <br>people here do not do Applets, and most of those who do Applets do not <br>do so using Swing.  As Rich Wilkman pointed out, starting Java with <br>Applets is probably not a good idea.<br><br>You might try your code in an application rather than an Applet, and <br>see if you have the same problem.  If you do, you will probably get a <br>much better response.<br><br>You are right that the volume in the JBuilder groups is less than that <br>in the Delphi groups.  There are also more Delphi users and more Delphi <br>TeamB members.  I would expect a slightly slower response as a result.<br><br>There are many Java related newsgroups on the net, and fewer Delphi <br>newsgroups.  So it is not surprising that the the Delphi groups here <br>are very active.  But while there are many other Java newsgroups, those <br>that I have seen seem to be full of spam and trolls.  These are by far <br>the best I have found, probably because they are moderated.<br><br>You posted your question in the middle of the holidays, when many <br>people are off doing other things, and there are quite a few less <br>people paying attention to these newsgroups.<br><br>Most of your messages seem to have gotten a response within a day, and <br>some of them seemed pretty helpful.  Both Stephen De Rudder and James <br>Shulz caught your semicolon problem (which I missed, sigh), and Rich <br>Wilkman provided some good advice as well.<br><br>This is not bad for free service provided by volunteers.  If you are <br>willing to pay for the service you may get a quicker response, but I am <br>not sure the results will be better.<br><br>Given all of this, I do not think the fact that you were not happy with <br>the response is an indication that people on the JBuilder groups are <br>less involved.<br><br></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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