🚀 go-pugleaf

Hi,

I have called german Borlad Infocenter.

Jdatastore is running out of live !!!! You cannot buy any further support

"Frintrop" <email@andrefrintrop.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:4373223e$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>I have found that in the release notes of jbuilder 2006  ( readme.html ):
>
> JDataStore
> As of JBuilder 2006, JDataStore is a deprecated feature and should not be 
> used except for legacy support or temporary development. You should use a 
> different DBMS for deployment purposes.
>
> Does anybody know what this means ?!?
>
> 

Andre,
congrat, you're one of the first who read the readme from the newest 
JBuilder (btw the latest one, the next build is an AddOn from Ecclipse...)

JDataStore will not further develop by Borland :-(

Change to InterBase 7.5 or Oracle if you need the database an more operating 
sytems...

Gruss

:-) thomas


"Frintrop" <email@andrefrintrop.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:4373223e$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>I have found that in the release notes of jbuilder 2006  ( readme.html ):
>
> JDataStore
> As of JBuilder 2006, JDataStore is a deprecated feature and should not be 
> used except for legacy support or temporary development. You should use a 
> different DBMS for deployment purposes.
>
> Does anybody know what this means ?!?
>
> 

It is still on Borland web to be sold.
7.03 came out recently.
DB/2, Oracle on the one hand
InterBase from Borland on the other hand.
Which one is relatively painless both in JBuilder and performance/operation?
Hopefully we will hear from the official people about this soon.

Mehmet Erten wrote:
> It is still on Borland web to be sold.
> 7.03 came out recently.
> DB/2, Oracle on the one hand
> InterBase from Borland on the other hand.
> Which one is relatively painless both in JBuilder and performance/operation?
> Hopefully we will hear from the official people about this soon.
> 
> 

And you think TeamB is "official people"? ;-) This thread was my first 
knowledge of the subject.  Borland tends not to comment on such issues.

 From personal knowledge, I must say that I would NOT recommend Oracle. 
  It is a complicated nightmare to administer.  I switched from Oracle 
to JDataStore mostly because JDataStore was so darn easy to use and 
administer.

-- 

Regards,

Lori Olson [TeamB]

------------

Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the
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> Mehmet Erten wrote:
>> It is still on Borland web to be sold.
>> 7.03 came out recently.
>> DB/2, Oracle on the one hand
>> InterBase from Borland on the other hand.
>> Which one is relatively painless both in JBuilder and 
>> performance/operation?

Oracle in the same breath as painless?!  That's a
new one.

Lori M Olson [TeamB] wrote:
>  From personal knowledge, I must say that I would NOT recommend Oracle. 
>  It is a complicated nightmare to administer.  I switched from Oracle to 
> JDataStore mostly because JDataStore was so darn easy to use and 
> administer.

Ditto on the Oracle part.  I recently moved a large Web app
from Oracle to MySQL because Oracle kept corrupting its
databases when the server crashed.  How solid and reliable
is that?!  Recovering the databases was a painful process.
In contrast, the MySQL databases running on the same machine
never missed a beat because of the crashes.  Also, its admin
and browser tools are far superior to what Oracle offers (in
my opinion, of course).


-- 


Paul Furbacher (TeamB)

   Save time, search the archives:
        http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html

   Is it in Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic?
        http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

   Finally, please send responses to the newsgroup only.
   That means, do not send email directly to me.
   Thank you.

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 02:22:18 -0500, Paul Furbacher [TeamB] wrote:

>  Recovering the databases was a painful process.
> In contrast, the MySQL databases running on the same machine
> never missed a beat because of the crashes.  Also, its admin
> and browser tools are far superior to what Oracle offers (in
> my opinion, of course).

Continuing on in the free realm - how do you guys think IBPhoenix match up
to MySql and to Interbase?

We use Derby (Cloudscape) in part of our product line (to handle some
client-level caching of information while still maintaining a database
format for the information).  Derby is nice - but not nearly as nice as JDS
- I don't care if it IS free... :P

Right now my choices would be to use MySql or IBPhoenix.  Hopefully
something comes along that's better in the Java-based landscape for
databases that's free... ;)

-- 
David Orriss Jr. [TeamB]
http://www.codethought.com
* Please limit all responses to the newsgroups. Thanks! *
The JBuilder Webring is dead - long live the JBuilder Webring.

My blog: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/daorriss/

Save yourself some time and check these sites:

Borland Newsgroup Search:
 http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic: 
 http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

David Orriss, Jr. [TeamB] wrote:

> ...how do you guys think IBPhoenix match up
> to MySql and to Interbase?

I think you mean Firebird.  From what I
understand, IBPhoenix is a service organization
dedicated to Interbase and Firebird support.

I haven't used Firebird to any great extent.
John Moore may have more to say on it.


-- 


Paul Furbacher (TeamB)

   Save time, search the archives:
        http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html

   Is it in Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic?
        http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

   Finally, please send responses to the newsgroup only.
   That means, do not send email directly to me.
   Thank you.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:31:19 -0500, Paul Furbacher [TeamB] wrote:

> David Orriss, Jr. [TeamB] wrote:
> 
>> ...how do you guys think IBPhoenix match up
>> to MySql and to Interbase?
> 
> I think you mean Firebird.  From what I
> understand, IBPhoenix is a service organization
> dedicated to Interbase and Firebird support.
> 

Ah.. I think you may be right.

> I haven't used Firebird to any great extent.
> John Moore may have more to say on it.

OK thanks.

-- 
David Orriss Jr. [TeamB]
http://www.codethought.com
* Please limit all responses to the newsgroups. Thanks! *
The JBuilder Webring is dead - long live the JBuilder Webring.

My blog: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/daorriss/

Save yourself some time and check these sites:

Borland Newsgroup Search:
 http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic: 
 http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

So far I really like how to connect to JDataStore.
Does Interbase work the same way with the remote connection?
That's just to define the IP number and point to the database file.
Interbase works with all Borland product as it is (that's what I understood 
from the introduction papers).
It means ODBC and JDBC drivers are all embedded as native features which are 
really cool feature to integrate different applications with one database.
Any interbase user's input will be appreciated.

(Any new news from JDataStore)

You have a number of options of connecting to an InterBase database. If 
it is local, you can just point to the file. However, this is not 
inprocess like JDataStore. For a remote connection, you can generally 
use ipadress  and filename and always use servername and filename. 
InterBase 7.5 also supports aliases, so can use ipadress and alias or 
servername and alias too. Finally netbui is supported too, so you can 
give a netbui name and filename too.

Note that our ODBC support is kind of in flux right now. The current 
version of InterBase includes only a trial ODBC driver. We are working 
on provided a full ODBC driver with InterBase 8.

If you have more questions in this regard you should post them to an 
interbase newsgroup.

Mehmet Erten wrote:

> So far I really like how to connect to JDataStore.
> Does Interbase work the same way with the remote connection?
> That's just to define the IP number and point to the database file.
> Interbase works with all Borland product as it is (that's what I understood 
> from the introduction papers).
> It means ODBC and JDBC drivers are all embedded as native features which are 
> really cool feature to integrate different applications with one database.
> Any interbase user's input will be appreciated.
> 
> (Any new news from JDataStore)
> 
> 

Mehmet Erten wrote:

> So far I really like how to connect to JDataStore.
> Does Interbase work the same way with the remote connection?
 > [...]

Please don't piggyback a new discussion on
an old subject!  If you have a new question,
start a new thread.  Piggybacking is something
you can do on AOL while having a "me, too" moment.

Please don't do it here.

Thanks.


-- 


Paul Furbacher (TeamB)

   Save time, search the archives:
        http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html

   Is it in Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic?
        http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

   Finally, please send responses to the newsgroup only.
   That means, do not send email directly to me.
   Thank you.

"Frintrop" <email@andrefrintrop.de> wrote in message 
news:4373223e$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>I have found that in the release notes of jbuilder 2006  ( readme.html ):
>
> JDataStore
> As of JBuilder 2006, JDataStore is a deprecated feature and should not be 
> used except for legacy support or temporary development. You should use a 
> different DBMS for deployment purposes.
>
> Does anybody know what this means ?!?
>
>
Since JDataStore is deprecated, was there anything special that JDataStore 
offered feature-wise that other embedded Java DB's did not?  There are lots 
of open-source embeddable pure Java DB's out there like:

HSQLDB:  http://hsqldb.org/
OneDollarDB:  http://www.daffodildb.com/onedollardb-opensource.html (I'm 
rather impressed by this one.  Don't let the name fool you.)
Mckoi:  http://mckoi.com/database/
Derby:  http://db.apache.org/derby/

And new ones coming out every day like 
(http://www.h2database.com/html/frame.html).  I saw the article by Lori on 
how to use Derby with JBuilder.  Do we loose anything by going with one of 
these instead of JDataStore?

Is there any chance Borland might open-source JDataStore like they did 
Firebird and let the community support it rather then just let it die?

http://firebird.sourceforge.net/ 

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:12:50 -0600, Bruce Alspaugh wrote:

>  Do we loose anything by going with one of 
> these instead of JDataStore?
> 

Performance/scalability.  JDatastore is much faster than any of the others
you mentioned.

> Is there any chance Borland might open-source JDataStore like they did 
> Firebird and let the community support it rather then just let it die?
> 
> http://firebird.sourceforge.net/

I hope there is...  Just have to wait and see.

-- 
David Orriss Jr. [TeamB]
http://www.codethought.com
* Please limit all responses to the newsgroups. Thanks! *
The JBuilder Webring is dead - long live the JBuilder Webring.

My blog: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/daorriss/

Save yourself some time and check these sites:

Borland Newsgroup Search:
 http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic: 
 http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

I have been using JDataStore7 but recently looked around at others. I 
ruled some out as clearly inadequate. I've been working with Derby 
recently because it seemed more promising. However, performance does not 
seem to be equal to jds, as David writes. I'm seeing that in the time it 
takes to retrieve, even with indexed columns.

Another performance plus for jds: you don't have to use jdbc to access 
it, which gives you a big performance boost when importing or exporting 
large amounts of data.

Also, Derby is not nearly as powerful as jds. For example, you can't 
drop a column, you can't change a column type, I don't believe you can 
even rename a column. The only change you can make to an existing column 
is to make a varchar longer (but not shorter). Other than that, to make 
a change you'd have to add a new column, but then you can't get rid of 
the old one. JDataStore provides far more flexibility manipulating an 
existing table.

John

David Orriss, Jr. [TeamB] wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:12:50 -0600, Bruce Alspaugh wrote:
> 
> 
>> Do we loose anything by going with one of 
>>these instead of JDataStore?
>>
> 
> 
> Performance/scalability.  JDatastore is much faster than any of the others
> you mentioned.
> 
> 
>>Is there any chance Borland might open-source JDataStore like they did 
>>Firebird and let the community support it rather then just let it die?
>>
>>http://firebird.sourceforge.net/
> 
> 
> I hope there is...  Just have to wait and see.
> 

Has Borland published any benchmarks to back up the claim that JDataStore 
offers better performance than the others?  The benchmarks for JDBC/HSQLDB 
looked pretty good on PolePosition:  www.polepos.org

Apparently, a JDataStore can be used as a persistent backing store for 
cached rows instead of keeping them in memory.  I gather this is useful if 
you have a large number of objects from a remote DB, or have a laptop user 
who can work remotely and then sync up their changes when they are back at 
the office network.  Is it possible to use a different DB in this role?

Bruce 

David Orriss, Jr. [TeamB] wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:12:50 -0600, Bruce Alspaugh wrote:
> 
>>Is there any chance Borland might open-source JDataStore like they did 
>>Firebird and let the community support it rather then just let it die?
>>
>>http://firebird.sourceforge.net/
> 
> I hope there is...  Just have to wait and see.

For what it's worth, we're still using JDataStore for EventCentral 
(http://ec.borland.com).  I haven't been told to switch to another 
database, so I take that to mean there's at least some hope remaining 
for a resurrection.

Regarding performance, there are some benchmark results in the article 
referenced below.  It doesn't directly compare the results with other 
implementations, but you could probably do those tests yourself if you 
wanted to.  Either way, it shows good performance and scalability.

   http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,33064,00.html

That article reminded me of what I think is another big advantage of 
JDataStore over HSQL and Derby.  Those don't support mirroring and 
automatic failover, do they?  That's not really important in many 
embedded database applications, but it does make JDataStore a much more 
serious and capable entry in the field.

-- 
Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB]

"John T. Dow" <john@johntdow.com> wrote in message 
news:43D8E5B1.3090605@johntdow.com...
> Also, Derby is not nearly as powerful as jds. For example, you can't drop 
> a column, you can't change a column type, I don't believe you can even 
> rename a column. The only change you can make to an existing column is to 
> make a varchar longer (but not shorter). Other than that, to make a change 
> you'd have to add a new column, but then you can't get rid of the old one. 
> JDataStore provides far more flexibility manipulating an existing table.

Does Derby not support the ALTER TABLE statement?  I've been using HSQLDB 
lately. According to pp. 87-88 of the HSQLDB User's Guide, it supports 
adding, dropping and renaming columns.  You can also add and drop 
constraints and indexes.  It also looks like you can change the datatypes 
when the individual existing values can be converted.

Bruce

It provides limited support for ALTER TABLE. Here's a quote from the 
manual showing how you can alter existing columns.

John


Modifying columns

The column-alteration allows you to alter the named column in the 
following ways:

� Increasing the length of an existing VARCHAR column.

CHARACTER VARYING or CHAR VARYING can be used as synonyms for the 
VARCHAR keyword.
To increase the width of a column of these types, specify the data type 
and new size after the column name.
You are not allowed to decrease the width or to change the data type. 
You are not allowed to increase the width of a column that is part of a 
primary or unique key referenced by a foreign key constraint or that is 
part of a foreign key constraint.

� Specifying the interval between consecutive values of the identity 
column.

To set an interval between consecutive values of the identity column, 
specify the integer-constant. You must previously define the column with 
the IDENTITY attribute (SQLSTATE 42837). If there are existing rows in 
the table, the values in the column for which the SET INCREMENT default 
was added do not change.

Bruce Alspaugh wrote:
> "John T. Dow" <john@johntdow.com> wrote in message 
> news:43D8E5B1.3090605@johntdow.com...
> 
>>Also, Derby is not nearly as powerful as jds. For example, you can't drop 
>>a column, you can't change a column type, I don't believe you can even 
>>rename a column. The only change you can make to an existing column is to 
>>make a varchar longer (but not shorter). Other than that, to make a change 
>>you'd have to add a new column, but then you can't get rid of the old one. 
>>JDataStore provides far more flexibility manipulating an existing table.
> 
> 
> Does Derby not support the ALTER TABLE statement?  I've been using HSQLDB 
> lately. According to pp. 87-88 of the HSQLDB User's Guide, it supports 
> adding, dropping and renaming columns.  You can also add and drop 
> constraints and indexes.  It also looks like you can change the datatypes 
> when the individual existing values can be converted.
> 
> Bruce
> 
>