🚀 go-pugleaf

X-Orig-MsgId: <81hmvr$9nk$1@news1.bu.edu>

Dave Eggleston (david.b.eggleston@intel.com) wrote:
: [proposed fixes snipped]

	I assume this is a reference to my post?  I ask because you below 
refer to something (secret scores) which I did not suggest but I don't think
anyone else did either and you might have misunderstood my suggestion (not
really having anything to do with Vinci directly).

: Any imbalances/balances can be corrected/shred via diplomacy.
: I wouldn't want to be the first player under the proposed
: change (get Dave!  he'll get an extra turn!)

	Just because an advantage can be offset by other player's actions
doesn't mean it isn't an advantage however.

: Adding secret scores to the game leads to the same arguments
: for and against that we've seen for other titles (e.g., E&T).
: I don't see anything special about Vinci that begs for this
: mechanic -- how come there have been no calls for secret
: scores in Tikal?

	I wasn't proposing secret scores or really directly referring to Vinci
at all - it is a general issue in MANY games.  I was proposing a fixed number
of points which later players get if and only if they don't get an equal number
of turns - note various games have such mechanisms in various ways (Durch die
Wuste 1st turn for example).
	Also, I think Tikal IS one of the games where turn order is a
meaningful factor - going first is a significant advantage over going last
- fortunately in Tikal there is a simple way to fix this - play the auction
version.

: IMO, the game requires no changes.  If you think the player
: going last has such a huge advantage, attack his pieces
: or block his path in previous turns.  I do not think that
: Vinci is so unique in this aspect among the many 
: multi-player conquest games...

	Agreed, it is a very common issue in all sorts of types of games.  
Vinci is actually somewhat unusual only in that it tries to offer a solution
to the first-player-advantage syndrome which likely weights things in favor
of the last player (Torres, for example, also favors the last player imho).
	Obviously, however, the most common and simplest solution is simply
to live with the fact that, whatever position is favored, who goes first
is randomly determined and everyone has an equal chance of being in the
favored position.

: - d

Aaron
aarondf@bu.edu    
http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/ (the Last Homely House)