🚀 go-pugleaf

   Its soooo NICE to read somebody who knows a little bit
   about economics, and who isn't parroting propaganda!
   
   Yep, jeff patterson wrote to All on 18 Aug 95  13:07:06 
    about:   Re: - Welfare Cowboys? (eco):

p> From: jpatter@tamu.edu (jeff patterson)
p> In article <4128j8$af4@digdug.pencom.com>, robin@pencom.com wrote:
 
 r> Clever...  But do you have some real data?  Why not just provide some 
 r> detailed data about how much each of the above groups is getting 
 r> any objective rationale...  People might think you are biased -- and not 
 r> just some kook.
 > 
 *> How about this, from the August 1995 issue of Atlantic Monthly:
 > 
 *> "Cotton figures in the controversy over the "double dip": the use of 
 
 *> to the USDA, farmers use about $85 million worth of subsidized water
 *> each year to grow surplus crops for which they also receive about $500
 *> million from the USDA."
 
 > Which is _precisely_ my point.  The government cuts off the 
 > "free market" by 

   Oh brother! 

 > trying to affect the supply -- which has an adverse effect on the
 > profitability 
 > of the producers.  The subsidy is an effort to repay them for the lost
 > profits 
 > -- which were caused by the government mucking with the supply.

 Reality check:

p> C'mon man, don't insult my intelligence. You think the big bad
p> government is *forcing* these poor AgriCorporations to rake all this
p> money? All for, duh, for no reason whatsoever?  You think that's why
p> the put-upon Agriculture industry pumped billions of dollars into
p> political campaigns? Do you seriously think it's why they have hordes
p> of lobbyists roaming the halls of Congress, scoring every piece of
p> legislation and packing the Agriculture Committee markups? How about
p> the billions in taxdollars we have spent advertising and marketing
p> these million-dollar corporations' products overseas? How about the
p> billions of dollars in state and federal-supported agricultural
p> research we provide them? Is the Big Bad Government forcing this money

p> I'm tired of those clueless few who pontificate on the great
p> political/economic forces of the universe. Usually they're either
p> people who've taken a few economic courses in junior college, weigh 400
p> pounds and host a nationally-syndicated radio show, work at the
p> University of Chicago School of Economics, or are sales manager at some
p> frigging Honda dealership. Their mantra is "the Free Market Will Save
p> Us ALL" 
p> The fact is, there isn't a businessman alive who really wants free and
p> open competition--since a level playing field means he's got a 50-50
p> chance of losing, and a better than even chance of diminished profits.
p> So he sets about improving his odds and profits in anyway he
p> can--flouting laws, influencing legislation, acting without concern for
p> the general welfare, etc. Those who have blind faith that private
p> enterprise is the cure to all our ills need to be reminded of an old
p> joke: How many conservative economists does it take to screw in a light

  These whackos you mention also forget one key point.  A pure 
  market will eat itself.  Common knowledge.  These whackos think
  common Econ 101 is Commie or LIBRILL! propaganda.  Fact is, 
  Capitalism is utterly dependent on government regulation.

  The list is very long, and some rather complex, but a simple example 
  is trust-busting -- a free market destroys competition.  That is: it
  destroys itself.  Other examples include destroying morality, 
  the middle class, and the environment, all things the economy is 
  utterly dependent on.

  Dittoheads really do need to complete their education!  Before
  Limbaugh, they knew they were ignorant, so stayed quite.  The
  problem is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge.
    Contrary to Limbaughtomyville, all of reality is 
  NOT just a matter of (political) opinion.  
  Ditto-heads hate that fact, and often refuse to admit it.
  Rush's world is very comfy, there they are experts.  Complex
  matters they have "learned" are mere "psycho-babble".  
  They are very proud of their "EIB diploma".  Do not try and take 
  all that away from them by attempting to introduce nasty and dirty
  and complex reality where a real education is helpful.

  LIBRILL! straw men are so much easier to deal with, they are 
  the genesis of all evil, pure and simple, black and white.
  Like straw men everywhere, they were designed to be easily slayed.
  Do not present them with real arguments.   They get upset, it
  is proof you are are a Commie, or worse; a LIBRILL!.
  --Doug Bashford


... Ecology & Economics have the same root word for good reasons.