🚀 go-pugleaf

jpatter@tamu.edu (jeff patterson) wrote:
: In article <4128j8$af4@digdug.pencom.com>, robin@pencom.com wrote:
: > Which is _precisely_ my point.  The government cuts off the "free 
market" by 
: > trying to affect the supply -- which has an adverse effect on the
: profitability 
: > of the producers.  The subsidy is an effort to repay them for the lost
: profits 
: > -- which were caused by the government mucking with the supply.

: C'mon man, don't insult my intelligence. 

I'm sure that wouldn't be possible...

: You think the big bad government
: is *forcing* these poor AgriCorporations to rake all this money? All for,
: duh, for no reason whatsoever?

No.  I think the government cheated these people out of the _right_ to earn 
money from their labors.  Then the "AgriCorps" (your word) reasonably 
asserted their _right_ to lobby congress for some relief.  Would _you_ 
accept Congress singling out _you_ for laws that said you were only allowed 
to work (say) 20 hours a week?  If that happened, wouldn't _you_ ask 
Congress to provide some compensation for the wages you lose due to being 
_forced_ to work less than you are able?

: You think that's why the put-upon
: Agriculture industry pumped billions of dollars into political campaigns?

Yes.  And I think this is a _natural_ reaction to the situation cause by 
the Congressional actions.

: Do you seriously think it's why they have hordes of lobbyists roaming the
: halls of Congress, scoring every piece of legislation and packing the
: Agriculture Committee markups? 

Yes...  And I'd be doing it too if Congress were artificially preventing 
competition in my industry (in fact, I already _AM_ doing it!).

: How about the billions in taxdollars we
: have spent advertising and marketing these million-dollar corporations'
: products overseas?

Separate issue...  This is Congress's lame attempt to fix our trade 
deficit.  They are trying to get foreign buyers to buy "American" goods 
(across many industries) instead of just allowing our companies to compete 
on price/quality...

: How about the billions of dollars in state and
: federal-supported agricultural research we provide them? Is the Big Bad
: Government forcing this money into their pockets?

Are you suggesting we should stop federal support of "Scientific Research"?  
Or only the research that you don't happen to agree with?  Perhaps you are 
unaware of the benefits of Agricultural research -- but in case you missed 
it: the US produces _most_ of the world's food.

: I'm tired of those clueless few who pontificate on the great
: political/economic forces of the universe. Usually they're either people
: who've taken a few economic courses in junior college, weigh 400 pounds
: and host a nationally-syndicated radio show, work at the University of
: Chicago School of Economics, or are sales manager at some frigging Honda
: dealership. Their mantra is "the Free Market Will Save Us ALL"

Or noble prise winning economists, or economic researchers, or people who 
are simply intelligent enough to see their noses on their faces and 
recognize the _facts_ for what they are.

: The fact is, there isn't a businessman alive who really wants free and
: open competition--since a level playing field means he's got a 50-50
: chance of losing, and a better than even chance of diminished profits. 

Well, _I'm_ a businessman.  _I_ want "free and open competition".  So you 
are _wrong_.

MOST businesspeople don't believe they have a 50-50 chance of losing.  They 
believe that they are better able to compete than those they are competing 
against -- and that they will succeed because of it.  Most are clearly 
_wrong_ in this belief -- but that doesn't require the Government to come 
in and "prop them up"...  _NOBODY_ benefits from that.

: So
: he sets about improving his odds and profits in anyway he can

You must have a pretty twisted view of the world...  Do you _seriously_ 
believe that the "average" businessperson lobbies Congress?  Do you really 
believe this?

:--flouting laws, 

If you got some proof -- let's see it...  I'm sure if there really _are_ 
such businesses, there'd be someway to _prove_ this pathetic assertion.

: influencing legislation, 

99% of all businesses do no such thing.  What percentage of the remainer a 
merely struggling to get back something that Congress has taken from them?

: acting without concern for the general
: welfare, etc. 

Where do you get the idea that it is the "business" responsibility to act 
with concern for the "general welfare"?  This sounds suspiciously 
_socialistic_...  Is that what you're suggesting (if so, then we can get to 
the meat of your distain...).

:Those who have blind faith that private enterprise is the
: cure to all our ills need to be reminded of an old joke: How many
: conservative economists does it take to screw in a light bulb? None...if
: the light bulb needed changing, the market would have done already.

HAWHAWHAWHAWHAWHAW...  I have no such faith.  I have even less faith that 
the government can artificially solve "market" problems though...

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
***  These are my opinions... Mine! All Mine! Minemineminemineminemine!   ***
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robin D. Wilson               robin@pencom.com                Pencom Software
701 Canyon Bend Dr.                                 9050 Capital of Texas Hwy
Pflugerville, TX  78660                                     Austin, TX  78759
(512) 251-1737                                                 (512) 343-6666