🚀 go-pugleaf

Phil Ronzone (phil@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <hsdgDBrsBH.9n1@netcom.com> hsdg@netcom.com (Bob Lange) writes:
: >Phil Ronzone (phil@netcom.com) wrote:
:     >Many people find a signficant difference between domestic
:     >animals and wild animals. Also, there are pristine areas, for
:     >example in the Sierras, but these are almost always areas
:     >under private protection. Finally, I don't recall reading
:     >that our tax dollars were used to subsidize 'huge herds of
:     >bison.'

: Did you have a point to make? If so, please make it.

Against stupidity, even the gods are helpless (Goethe, I think).  It 
seems I am wasting my time trying to make a point that you can't understand.
(BTW, I mis-typed above; I meant "under public protection".)  

That there is a difference in appreciation between domestic and wild 
animals in the wilderness is made clear by the fact that millions of 
people travel thousands of miles every year to view wild animals at 
preserves and national parks.  No such behavior is evident for herds of 
cows.  "Gee dad, can we drive across the country to see the cows?  Stop,
we have to take a picture of that cow!  Isn't this wonderful Martha.  And
look at all the cows!". Is this not a reasonably accurate distinction?

: Oh, and some people find "significant difference" between white people and
: black people. So?

What a silly rejoinder.  In grammar school we used to say "Soooo...".  So
we ought to be protecting fragile "pristine" ecosystems against herds of 
domestic animals whose overgrazing is being subsidized at taxpayer expense.

:     >There has to be a compromise over what is protected and what
:     >is not, IMHO. But we do not have to provide welfare subsidies
:     >to those who are using public lands for grazing. This
:     >distorts the market and represents only a response to
:     >politics.

: So let me get this straight -- the farmer PAYS the Federal Government to
: use the land, and THAT's welfare?

Yes, if they do not pay market rates.  Also an earlier poster listed a 
number of subsidies I will not repeat, including water subsidies.

: Pray tell, are there people that want to use this same land and that are
: willing to pay more?

Aha.  Perhaps a light went on.  That is the whole point -- why not charge 
market rates so that we are not subsidizing those who are leasing it now.
Note the topic of this discussion is "Welfare Cowboys".  Bid the price up 
to the max on lands that are available for grazing. BTW, I do not take 
the position that NO lands ought to be available.  My original post was
in response to someone who seemed to claim that there are no cowpies in
grazing lands.  

: Hmmmmm?

: If not, you use of "welfare" is moronic ....
Have you run out of arguments so we can start calling each other names now?

: "I didn't do it, nobody saw me, and you can't prove it!" - B. Simpson

: These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)

? but will the government subsidize the rent? :-)

Bob
-- 
  ============================================================
  =          The Health System Development Group             =
  =       Eagle Rock, CA  213/ 254-3517; 344-7078 fax        = 
  ============================================================