🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1994Nov18.164701.4519@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) write:
> Proposition 187 was not about setting limits on immigration or about
> overpopulation.  It was about how to treat those who already live here.
> I don't deny that there is a serious problem.  The question is whether
> 187 is the way to solve it.  Although schooling and health care are a
> nice bonus for undocumented immigrants they mainly come for jobs so
> 187 would probably not have a big affect on population in CA.   

Like many people that voted for 187, we felt it was a much large
incentive for coming here.  This was not only about the people
already here illegally, it was about the millions that could still come.
Most the 1.6 million illegal aliens here today came after the 1986 
amnisty to all the illegal aliens here then.

> While some people like to isolate environmental issues from other issues
> many environmentalists believe that there is a hard connection between
> environment and other issues like social justice, etc.  

There may be a connection, and the connection I believe is overpopulation
causes social injustice (some of it at least).  If Mexico didn't
have an over population problem, social justice problems would be much
tractable.  Cure the overpopulation and you cure the social juctice problems,
not the other way around.

> Can we really ever
> solve problems relating to illegal immigration with a country that is
> significantly poorer next to us?  Current policies in Mexico are  
> increasing the disparity of income between the rich and poor so the
> growing economy in Mexico is not helping most people (its hurting them)
> so they will continue to come.  

And with Mexico population still growing and growing,
and there is little we can do little about it (well we could if
they'd listen, but they don't listen to environmentalist in the USA).
I'm afraid that the 1.6 million illegal aliens here are just a drop 
in the bucket, so to speak.  If we can't save Mexico, shouldn't we 
at least try and save ourselves?
And Mexico is not the only population hot spot in the world, 
just the closest and with the easist access.   There are probably
more than a billion people that would like to move to the US 
(or even California) if allowed.   Some people think we've got 
the room, but I'd hate to have to live in that room.
What was it that Edward Abbey said?  Somthing like 
"Be fruitful and multiply is the philosophy of a cancer cell.".

> When groups like the Sierra Club and the
> Greens oppose prop 187 it is because they see a wider perspective of the
> issue.  Maybe you disagree with that and think environmental problems
> can be solved by just "closing the door" or other actions with a narrow
> focus but I think that such measures are short-term actions that don't
> really solve the problem, they just make it look like something is being
> done.

It's not really "closing the door", but "battening down the hatches".
But just because the hatches are closed doesn't mean we should stop
trying to help the thoughs "out in the storm".    Long term and short term
and any term solutions must be all tried at once, on every level:
State, Federal and World (UN).

Phheeppp (sound of my lips flapping as I breath out a big sigh). 
I don't feel like my posts are very coherent today.
Thoughts are coming out pretty randomly.
For some reason I can hardly finish a sentence.  
Thank God it's friday!

chow!
John S. Watson                  
NASA Ames Research Center MS/243-9, Moffett Field, CA 94035
<a href="http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/~watson/watson.html">John S. Watson</a>
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