🚀 go-pugleaf

From: Werner Knoll <wernerkn@telus.net>
Newsgroups: de.soc.politik.misc
Subject: Re: Nizkor bankrott !
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:13:05 -0700

Hans Bolte wrote: 
> Horst Kleinsorg wrote: 
> Hallo Horst,
 
> > Man wundert sich. Unsere Berufs-"Holocaust"-Kaempfer
> > Langowski, Kolthoff, Chatwin  usw. sind  ploetzlich alle
> > verschwunden in der NG.

> > Kann Nizkor nicht mehr zahlen weil Nizkor bankrott ist?
> > Was man  nicht fuer Geld alles so tut, nicht wahr?

> Eine dumme Frage: Was ist "Nizkor"?
> Hans


Ich konnte niemals verstehen das solche schlaue 
Menschen wie die Juden
eine Person wie McVay f|r sich verwenden.

Der Mann hat |berhaupt kein Verstdndnis wie 
man mit Menschen umgeht.

Ich habe hier die Antwort von Cecelia Plechinger 
auf McVays seine Frechheiten.

***********************************************************

Subject: Ken McVay speaks for only *some* of us
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:02:34 GMT
From: cplechinger@my-dejanews.com
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Newsgroups: can.politics,van.general,can.general,bc.general

In article <6js9fq$stf$1@news.trends.ca>,
  kmcvay@nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> In article <3560D751.3ED4D12C@istar.ca>, 
Werner Knoll  <werk@istar.ca>wrote:
> >Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> [Werner says Cecilia says]

"*Says* Cecilia says"????

I'm Cecelia and I actually did post this to 
soc.culture.jewish awhile back. And Ken, 
it is spelled "Cecelia" not "Cecilia."
You and I go back to 1991, before you 
founded Nizkor, Ken. You should know how to 
properly spell my name. And I am part
of the history of Nizkor, Ken, yet you pretend 
to have just barely heard of me.

[...]

My approach is far different than yours.  I seek 
to understand and elucidate while you seek to 
punish and reek revenge.  I seek to prevent future 
Revisionism before it starts by elucidating
*why* people become Revs in the first place 
and providing viable alternatives to satisfy the 
same needs such people seek and find
in Revisionism.  You, by contrast, seek to 
hunt them down, "expose" them, discredit them 
and equate each and every one of them with
hard-core Jew-haters.  I seek to humanize 
whilst you seek to dehumanize them.

[...]

(According to you, each and every person who 
becomes a Rev does so out of evil motives, 
specifically, Jew-hating motives -- but
I posited motives like trying to find relief 
from a Shoah that is too hard to bear and 
further posited that Germans both American-born 
and European-born are at much greater risk to
become Rev's due to a need to seek shelter 
from the guilt -- guilt which is big enought as it is, 
but gets amplified further by anti-German bigots.  
THIS vital info YOU did not want to HEAR.)

If I had offered to name you names of all the 
in-the-closet Revs I knew and to give you private 
personal information on the publicly-Revisionist 
people I know (I mean information they would want 
kept private), maybe then you would have seen
me as a valuable resource, Ken.  But this too is 
not my style. I would relate other Revisionist's 
experiences to you but with all identifying 
information expunged.  You did not like that
Ken.  Names, addresses, employers you would 
have wanted. Traumatic anti-German childhood 
and young adult experiences you did not want.

[...]

So, you unilaterally decided that my massive, but 
"normal" information on Butz was not worth knowing 
and not worth passing on to scholars researching 
Holocaust denial. But, I suppose, in addtion to thinking
you speak for each and every participant of <can.politics, 
van.general,can.general, and bc.general> 
(such as by posting "Knoll speaks for none of us" 
with the "us" meaning all the participants of the said
NGs), you think can speak for Lipstadt and also but 
make her decisions for her.  Too bad.

So I had little value to you, Ken.  Too bad.  
What I know, in the right hands, is invaluable for 
the very same "combat the Holocaust deniers" 
work you so sincerely and diligently devote yourself to.  
But you methodology is so different from mine that I 
even had to put your phrase "combat the Holocaust
deniers" in quote marks because it is so different 
from what I feel when I think of reducing the 
phenonomon of Holocaust denial.  I do not want to 
"combat" Holocaust deniers who are sincere 
disbelievers of the Shoah.  I just want to provide
viable alternatives and to combat the *causes* 
of people seeking solace or an outlet in Revisionism.

Thanks to people like you, Ken, there is at this time 
a dire poverty of viable alternatives to Revisionism.  
Thanks to you and your ilk, people like me and 
Werner Knoll are faced with two extremes -- yours 
(which actually deserves the label
"Holocaust Lobby") and radical Revisionism's.

At the very same time you and your ilk seek to 
suppress the truth about why we turn to Rev, 
some of those who run radical Revisionism
(Carto, Mark Weber, Hans Schmidt) understand 
*very well* the needs of people like me, Werner Knoll, 
hundreds of thousands of American and Canadian 
Germans to include Ernst Zu"ndel.  And they
meet our needs and lure us into Revisionism 
(Zu"ndel was so lured in Toronto years ago) with 
these met needs. Once there, an effort is on to 
lure us into hard-core Jew-hating circles 
(they so lured Zu"ndel).

With me, all the further they got me was Revisionism.
The "Holocaust Lobby" then did much to drive me 
towards hard-core Nazism. It is only to my credit I 
did not go.  Don't say if I resisted anybody could. 
I am made of some pretty tough stuff.  If most people,
including Ken, were subjected to what "the Holocaust Lobby" 
subjected me to since 1990 when I first "came out," 
they would be neo-Nazis. Like I said, this included Ken.  
I will not say all the things they put me through here. 
Maybe I will publicly say it another time or
in another venue and maybe I will not.

With Werner, I cannot tell from just the few posts I 
read if he had been lured as far as actually into 
Revisionism or not. But I can see that he is "at risk."  

But Ken, with your posts, you are increasing the risk.   
"At risk" does not mean "evil" either, Ken.  Do not 
blame the victims.  We too are victims and
survivors of the Shoah.

And I myself am also a victim from a Jewish point 
of view, Ken. But you were so busy trashing me 
the ways the Germans part of my heritage made 
me 'at risk' that you never even let me tell you I am 
also Jewish and very much like a Hidden Child first
generation Jewish Shoah survivor and very much 
like a Second Generation Jewish Shoah survivor.  

It is your own prejudice which did not let you see 
THESE traits in me, Ken.  That plus the fact you 
are a Goy.  The JEWISH rage in me never spoken 
about a huge portion of my people cut off, my 
JEWISH mourning, you never heard.  Had I gotten 
a different e-mail account and showed you the 
Jewish rage and mourning within me, you would 
have liked that other persona, huh, Ken.

***********************************************************
Werner Knoll