🚀 go-pugleaf

Regarding Starting an ISP.. Marc Bissonnette was talking about the purchasing
of hardware.......

> (let's say you go quality, buy 100 USR 28.8's at a decent bulk price of $200 

Yuck.. USRs are hard to get and not preferred.  Motorola Powers or Microcom
rackmount modems work well.

> ea) need at least two machines (One being your main server and the other being 
> your gateway/router) you'll need those modem boxes (damn, forgot the name, but 

Good luck with two machines.  And don't go cheap on your router, get a real
router not something like telebit netblazer.  Cisco 2501s are good for a single
line operation.  Modem boxes?  Terminal servers maybe?  DO NOT use boca boards 
or something cheesy.  Xylogics and Livingston make some great products.

> guarantee?) Hmm, let's add the costs; modems: $20000 Computers (good ones, lots 

$20,000 for two computers?  Sure.

> months phone service: 7500, uninterruptable power supply: $600, that modem box 

100 telephone lines for $50,000 ... for Bell I could see them trying that, but
really you are looking at about $10,000 or less.

> thing $500 (That's a wild guess)guarantee to Bell $50000 (I'd think that's on 

A good terminal server is going to run THOUSANDS of dollars.  A Xylogics Annex 32
port is going to run atleast $5000 with cables and software.

Good luck getting a good facility for lines too.  Bell will not install ANYTHING
for just anyone nowadays.

> 	Your best bet is to have something like 20 lines to start with, get a 
> fractional T1 (That allows for expansion, whereas ISDN isn't upgradeable) get 

ISDN for Internet providing?  NO.  I don't think that would work so well.  If you 
are only starting with 10 or 20 lines, a 56K line would be your best bet. Depending
on where you are, you could have a HELL of a time getting any DS0s installed.  We
are in Sarnia, Ontario and Bell claimed that anywhere we are is TOO far for a DS0 
line. (We finally have one installed.)
If you are in a remote city like we are, the cost for a DS0 or multiple DS0s or a
DS1 is COMPLETELY ridiculous.  In town DS1s (Toronto to Toronto.. same station) are 
pretty inexpensive.

> the modesm (Don'e even waste the public's time with 14.4's, you'll have to 

I would have to say that about 75 percent of our users use 14.4 modems and only 
20% use 28.8... is there a reason for using all 28.8s?  (We use 28.8s.. )

> you started small... Talk to companies like fONOROLA or e-connect, etc. 

No.. talk to companies like MCI Internet.  MCI (american based) provides THE
best service and support.  We have a DS1 from MCI (to WestOrange) and I would not
trade it for a DS1 to anyone else.  You have to remember how fast the connections
that fonorola and places like that have to the rest of the Internet (USA).  If 
the provider you choose only has 6 DS0s to a MAJOR backbone provider, then what 
is the sense in purchasing a DS1 from them?

> ISP owner could give you a much better idea, though I'd hazard to say these numbers 

Agreed.  The numbers are close.. but they are not based on what you need.  The
cost of starting an ISP is in 6 digits for sure.  You have to look at more costs
than what you have listed.  We paid to have a 200 pair telephone cable installed
to our premises.  We have a back-up line to another provider, and there are many
other things you need. 

> piece of advice: Don't lie to your clients about your bandwidth, user-to-line 
> ratio or systems capabilities... You'd be amazed at the number of smaller ISP's 

Don't rely on the size of pipe that a provider has.  I could claim to have a 
T1 (as non-techs know it) or a DS1 (as we all know it, right?) to the Internet
but my provider may only have a 56K line.  Look for major provider connections
like MCI, Sprint, Net99, ANS, etc, within a few hops in a traceroute.  

Big names are usually bigger companies with more bandwidth.

Phone companies are NOT good internet providers.. if possible, avoid contact with 
the telephone company.  Order your lines (tell them it is for Internet and see
the response) and that is it.. stay away from that monster.

Oh.. and one final suggestion about starting up.. YOU HAVEN'T A CHANCE.  Too many
people providing already.  No Internet provider is afraid of the competition (I
don't think) but we don't like monopolies and other people who ruin the Internet
for the rest of us by turning customers off of it.  (ie. provide bad service and
support, rip off users, fail to provide the service(s)...)

In other words.. leave the Internet to the people who brought it to its current 
state, the Internet providers in existence.  It is all a money grab for people
now.  We sunk millions into it as a group to bring it to where it is and now 
that we have established the clientele and the 'need' for the Internet, you all
jump on the bandwagon for your piece of the pie.. the sad thing is, too many
dirty fingers get in the pie and ruin it for the rest!

Happy netsurfing (with a provider of your choice).
Bernie Brocklehurst
bernie@ebtech.net