🚀 go-pugleaf

(I'll post this to http://www.capital.net/users/wkyrouz soon-- with
any appropriate editing)

  A little over a month ago my wife and I started our car shopping and
research, and the Net quickly became an indispensable tool with the
auto newsgroups, a couple of web sites (e.g. Edmunds, KBB) and helpful
netizens who e-mailed suggestions.  I am writing to thank the latter
group and to let them (and any other would-be shoppers) know our
experience.  Some had also written us back to see what kind of deal we
ended up with-- a new '97 Civic EX Sedan w/ tape, security system and
floormats @ 500 over invoice.  

The Lessons Learned

-Patience-- easier to have when you aren't truly desperate to get a
new set of wheels-- it's nice to confidently answer the sales reps
with "Oh we're in no hurry, we'll order if it's not on the lot"

-When it's time to deal; **do it over the phone or fax**.  The
wheeling and dealing was almost FUN this way!  One netizen described
how she faxed a set of dealers with a list of options (all at invoice
price of course) along with a line item for "dealer profit".  With the
exception of e-mail to one dealer I went for the regular telephone
call.   It worked wonderfully-- The rep has to go to his manager for
approval?  Sure! Go right ahead, I'll be awaiting your call while
watching the six o'clock news. :-)  Not to mention dealing with a
place 45 minutes away is so much easier by phone...

-Verify your data.  Make sure both www.edmunds.com www.kbb.com agree
and check the manufacturer�s site for options.

-Make sure the car has everything you need: Someone pointed out to me
that Civics do not have floormats standard--and to make sure that
those get included in the deal


Albany Area Dealers

	For the most part, our experience at the dealerships was
pretty good!  I went into each dealer with defenses ready for the car
salesperson from hell.  Instead in each case we were met with
courteous, helpful and non-threatening folk (one notable exception
below, but that wasn't in-person).

Albany City Honda

	The first dealer we visited was the one everyone told us NOT
to visit (for reasons unclear).  But we were just interested in a test
drive so we figured Why Not?  They did not have the exact model we
wanted to test drive (a fact met at most every dealer), but their rep
Don(?) just handed us some keys to a similar model and let us drive
off.  This was the only dealer that let us test-drive without company
in the backseat.  
	So while we give him credit for that we came back to find him
at a desk with some haggling customers.  We returned the keys and
quickly made an exit.  

Saturn of Albany

	In a nutshell: Their customer service lives up to the hype,
the car does not.  Or "It feels like you're driving a really good
car... that's about 2 years old".

Armory Nissan

	Here we met a nice guy who was new at the dealer who let us
take a Sentra our for a spin (unfortunately not the GLE-- none
available on the lot).  Again, no pressure-- but as with each dealer
we made it clear that we were just getting started and wanted to
drive, not buy.  

	The funny thing is that we might have ended up buying a Sentra
through them instead of a Civic:  A few days *after* we signed for our
Civic there was a message on our answering machine offering a $1000
rebate.  We had picked the Civic over the Sentra by a nose (ok, maybe
a head)- but in any event if this was a Nissan rebate (as opposed to a
Armory rebate), coupled with the fact that Nissan offers a nice
financing plan we might have taken the Sentra.  On the other hand if
it was just an Armory rebate then it just would have been their
opening offer in haggling.

Nemith Nissan

	Again, no GLE on the lot [Do people not buy the high-end
entry-model cars?].  Courteous, but didn't hear from after our visit
(not a complaint, just a statement).

Keeler Honda

	Mistake.  Our visit to the place was harmless; a nice
gentlemen took down all our info, but we didn't test drive anything
because they didn't have an EX on the lot (ugh) and we already did the
DX or LX at Albany City.

	But what was the closest thing to a horror story that I can
offer is a phone call I had with one of their sales reps.  Actually in
the course of my on-the-phone price shopping I made two calls to this
dealership.  For the first call the rep I dealt with wasn't there, so
I got daring and asked for the Fleet Manager (some say that they can
get you a better deal).  

	The Fleet Manager laughed when I quoted him the invoice price
(which of course includes the dealer holdback).  Then he said they
don't do prices over the phone and to come in.  

  	Why I called back I don't know, but the second guy I spoke to
was quite a character.  I'll let his words speak for themselves:

	"Oh yeah right, you get your invoice price and start calling
dealers over the phone so you can have us compete against each other
so you can get the best deal."  (After 5 seconds of silence I said
'Yes.. And your point is?')

	"Some of that stuff you read on the Internet isn't accurate--
they aren't off by THAT much.. a nickel here a dime there.. but when
you come in here we'll show you exactly where they are wrong..."

	"We expect our customers to do a little extra, to go that 
extra mile and come into our offices so we can work with them..."

	And more along the lines of the above.  He was a textbook
example of the high pressure "Make the customer work for you" salesman

as described on the Edmunds site.  This conversation took place while
I was at work, and at that point I was in much too polite of a mood;
So I ended the conversation with him thinking I was going to come in
on Saturday rather than saying, "Listen-- you are here to serve ME,
the customer, not the other way around; if you aren't going to deal
with me over the phone then we will take our money elsewhere!"

	Fortunately every other dealer we spoke to was willing to work
over the phone and didn't insult my intelligence.  Others I have
spoken to have had similar experiences with Keeler-- saying that they
have a snobby "You will take our deal" attitude.

Saratoga Honda/Mohawk Honda

	These two were only dealt with over the phone.  Everyone and
their brother told us, "Saratoga Honda is the best place to deal with
in the area".  Fortunately Rensselaer was always mentioned as #2 so I
could work with someone closer to home.  The Saratoga salesperson was
friendly and helpful but couldn't get back to me with a deal as
quickly as Eric at Rensselaer.

Rensselaer Honda

	And finally, where we actually test drove the exact car we
wanted (albeit one already owned by someone at the dealer).  Eric was
another new kid on the block, but was very helpful and friendly.  In
fact I almost bit *his* head off by mistake when I misread something
before signing the deal.  As I said above I had Rensselaer and
Saratoga going against each other for a deal-- their opening bid came
out to $1200 or so over invoice, but eventually they could be nudged
down to $500.  We were shooting for $300, and if you are shopping
around and are closer to Saratoga you may want to be a little more
gutsy.  :-)  Had it been anything other than a Civic we probably would
have really pushed for $300 or lower. 

	Our experience was so good that I walked out of there rather
confused-- "How come I didn't get offered useless rustproofing or gold
trim or something?!?!".  Not that I'm complaining, mind you-- this was
like the Saturn dealer without the free drinks (or the tour, or the
Disneyesque atmosphere)!

	Note: We're waiting for our car to be delivered so the above
glowing review is contingent on everything between now and us driving
out of there going well *knocking on all sorts of wood*.  But I've got
two friends at work who bought cars from them and rave about their
service.


	Well, that about does it.  Thank you again to all who helped
us have an enjoyable first-time car buying experience.
Comments/questions welcome.

Bill



--
Stephanie A. McGowan sm9311@cnsibm.albany.edu
William J. Kyrouz    wkyrouz@nyx.net