🚀 go-pugleaf

Daniel A. Norton (danorton@albany.net) wrote:

: This isn't a list between techies at the various companies -- it's
: between the _Presidents_.

Wrong.

Do a who albany-isp before making accusations.

It's mostly between the operational staff of the different orginizations.
Some are presidents, some are not.  Most of the orginizations in the area
are small enough that the President is head tech guy, but that's not
always the case.

For example, LogicalNet.. Tush N. is president of LogicalNet.  Dan Larusso
is the only one on the list.  Norman Kurland was on from CRISNY, he was
not president.  (noone from CRISNY is on the list anymore after Norman's
old e-mail address started bouncing)  

There are also a handful of locally operated providers who are not on the
list at all. (AcmeNet, KKNet, and a couple of others come straight to
mind)

And then the nationals aren't on the list.

: I did, you'll get responses ranging from "issues" among service
: providers in the Albany area to "none of your business."  They refuse to
: make the contents of the list public.

Exactly.  And you're using bombast and hysteria, along with false
allusions to collusionary activities.

Are you seriously suggesting that all the local providers are colluding?
To what end?  The nationals are an attractive option for many, but the
locals have the edge in the community content and superior support of some
locals.  If we did something to collude to try to do something, like
raising prices, what would prevent our customers from migrating to an
out-of-the-area provider?

: The issue isn't the mailing list technology.  A mailing list simply
: makes it easier for the ISP companies to communicate.  Even if the list
: itself were made public, as one provider writes, "One way or another we
: will continue sending private mail to each other."

Correct.  The issue is the ability for the providers to talk without
making those statements public.  It's done via. list, rather than
cumbersome Cc: lines.

In the list, it's a forum for any ISP to express
viewpoints/opinions/statements without parsing and phrasing it for public
consumption.

I created the list for that purpose.  To make it *easy* for albany area
ISP to communicate, and cooperate in ways that are beneficial to 
customers.  (fairs, regional peering, ways to improve systems, how to
combat abuse, streamline accounting, etc)

A good number of these things, if we had to be sensitive to how every word
could be interpeted and perceived by the general public, would be left
unsaid.  It could be argued that customers would experience *lower*
quality of service if a novice ISP could not benefit from the wisdom of
older ISPs.

: communications, but should the officers of area ISPs be communicating
: privately about the business?  What does that say for competition in the

Yes.

: local ISP market?  What opportunities for collusion does this allow --

None, zero, zip.  If we colluded, how would be make it stick?

: or even encourage?  Apparently, we shouldn't have the right to have the
: answers to these questions.

No, I more believe it is a personal affront to you when I had to tell you
"No, it's private".  You wouldn't accept that.

Conspiracy has the novel attribute of being nearly impossible to disprove
and is oft used to shore up an argument that lacks substance and/or
reasonable cause.

- Matt

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