🚀 go-pugleaf

Mark Anderson <mea@nospambradnylion.com> wrote:
> Here's another commercial making the radio rounds that peaked my stupid 
> meter.  I can understand the old rebate, refund, whatever trick working 
> for consumer products costing 100s of dollars and even cars costing 
> thousands of dollars.  But houses costing in the hundreds of thousand 
> dollars?  People would fall for a refund trick when there are a so many  
> other ways to lose out big in complicated real estate transactions?
>
> If I were in the market for a house I would run as fast as I could from 
> an outfit like this.  Ironically, Redfin is listing a couple of houses 
> in my neighborhood.  I never heard of them before.
>
> Here's where the above domain points to.
>
> http://www.redfin.com/about/landing-14

seriously, you've never heard of redfin before?  jesus fuck, anderson,
you're an idiot.

In article glg@tanzenmb.com says...
> seriously, you've never heard of redfin before?  jesus fuck, anderson,
> you're an idiot.

I'm an idiot because I don't recognize a corporate brand?

I haven't had a TV in many many years so I'm not up on what commercials 
have been implanted into most everyone's subconscious.  The  recent 
listings in my neighborhood were the first I've ever seen of Redfin and 
that was only recently.  Their radio radio troll for the mathematically  
challenged house buyer peaked my interest.

Mark Anderson <mea@nospambradnylion.com> wrote:
> In article glg@tanzenmb.com says...
>> seriously, you've never heard of redfin before?  jesus fuck, anderson,
>> you're an idiot.
>
> I'm an idiot because I don't recognize a corporate brand?

redfin is the best site for looking at RE listings

> I haven't had a TV in many many years so I'm not up on what commercials 
> have been implanted into most everyone's subconscious.  The  recent 
> listings in my neighborhood were the first I've ever seen of Redfin and 
> that was only recently.  Their radio radio troll for the mathematically  
> challenged house buyer peaked my interest.

wtf?  I don't exactly agree with their "refund" moniker, but they're not
running a scam.  They're just a very low service realtor.  For a seller, that
means only paying commission to the buyer's agent.  For a buyer, that means
they rebate (or "refund" in their ads) part of the buyer's agent share to
the buyer.

In article glg@tanzenmb.com says...
> wtf?  I don't exactly agree with their "refund" moniker, but they're not
> running a scam.  They're just a very low service realtor.  For a seller, that
> means only paying commission to the buyer's agent.  For a buyer, that means
> they rebate (or "refund" in their ads) part of the buyer's agent share to
> the buyer.

Personally, I wouldn't do business with them if I had a choice.  Giving 
the appearance that you can get cash back on a closing is a deceptive 
sales practice.  I steer clear of anyone who tries to deceive me.  
They're only refunding your own damned money.  They make it seem like 
you won't have to fork over dough at closing because instead, you'll get 
cash back -- a closing cost refund.  Maybe back a few years ago that may 
have been the case but I would think sizable down payments are required 
nowadays.

Mark Anderson <mea@nospambradnylion.com> wrote:
> In article glg@tanzenmb.com says...
>> wtf?  I don't exactly agree with their "refund" moniker, but they're not
>> running a scam.  They're just a very low service realtor.  For a seller, that
>> means only paying commission to the buyer's agent.  For a buyer, that means
>> they rebate (or "refund" in their ads) part of the buyer's agent share to
>> the buyer.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't do business with them if I had a choice.  Giving 
> the appearance that you can get cash back on a closing is a deceptive 
> sales practice.  I steer clear of anyone who tries to deceive me.  
> They're only refunding your own damned money.  They make it seem like 
> you won't have to fork over dough at closing because instead, you'll get 
> cash back -- a closing cost refund.  Maybe back a few years ago that may 
> have been the case but I would think sizable down payments are required 
> nowadays.

you own a house, don't you?  Have you completely forgotten how this works?
They're not refunding your own money, they're giving you part of the money
that would go your realtor if you had a "normal" one.

You can't go to the seller and say "hey, I'll pay 1% less, you give 1% less
to the realtors", because the seller already has a contract with their realtor
setting the %.  That gets split between the buyer and seller's realtors at
closing.  redfin as the buyer's realtor sends some of that back to the
buyer.

what you're too stupid to see is that it isn't the buyer being screwed here,
it's the realtor system, as what redfin is doing begins to break down that
ludicrous system, something I wholeheartedly applaud.

Geoff Gass <glg@tanzenmb.com> wrote:
>Mark Anderson <mea@nospambradnylion.com> wrote:
>>glg@tanzenmb.com says...

>>>seriously, you've never heard of redfin before?  jesus fuck, anderson,
>>>you're an idiot.

>>I'm an idiot because I don't recognize a corporate brand?

>redfin is the best site for looking at RE listings

>>I haven't had a TV in many many years so I'm not up on what commercials 
>>have been implanted into most everyone's subconscious.  The  recent 
>>listings in my neighborhood were the first I've ever seen of Redfin and 
>>that was only recently.  Their radio radio troll for the mathematically  
>>challenged house buyer peaked my interest.

>wtf?  I don't exactly agree with their "refund" moniker, but they're not
>running a scam.  They're just a very low service realtor.  For a seller, that
>means only paying commission to the buyer's agent.  For a buyer, that means
>they rebate (or "refund" in their ads) part of the buyer's agent share to
>the buyer.

I've got to point out that the agent isn't the buyer's agent unless the
buyer and agent have a contract. The agent the buyer is working with
has a fiduciary duty to the seller as a sub-agent of the seller's agent
if that contract does not exist. That means, if the buyer discloses a
material fact (such as how much pressure he's under to move) to the
agent, that fact is supposed to be reported to the seller. It's a
bad deal for the buyer not to have representation in the negotiation.

If buyer and agent have a contract, the buyer's agent still gets paid out
of the proceeds of the sale.

The dual agency concept is bullshit. You can't work for both parties
in a negotiation.

Geoff Gass <glg@tanzenmb.com> wrote:
>Mark Anderson <mea@nospambradnylion.com> wrote:
>>glg@tanzenmb.com says...

>>>wtf?  I don't exactly agree with their "refund" moniker, but they're not
>>>running a scam.  They're just a very low service realtor.  For a seller,
>>>that means only paying commission to the buyer's agent.  For a buyer,
>>>that means they rebate (or "refund" in their ads) part of the buyer's
>>>agent share to the buyer.

>>Personally, I wouldn't do business with them if I had a choice.  Giving 
>>the appearance that you can get cash back on a closing is a deceptive 
>>sales practice.  I steer clear of anyone who tries to deceive me.  
>>They're only refunding your own damned money.  They make it seem like 
>>you won't have to fork over dough at closing because instead, you'll get 
>>cash back -- a closing cost refund.  Maybe back a few years ago that may 
>>have been the case but I would think sizable down payments are required 
>>nowadays.

>you own a house, don't you?  Have you completely forgotten how this works?
>They're not refunding your own money, they're giving you part of the money
>that would go your realtor if you had a "normal" one.

>You can't go to the seller and say "hey, I'll pay 1% less, you give 1% less
>to the realtors", because the seller already has a contract with their realtor
>setting the %.  That gets split between the buyer and seller's realtors at
>closing.  redfin as the buyer's realtor sends some of that back to the
>buyer.

>what you're too stupid to see is that it isn't the buyer being screwed here,
>it's the realtor system, as what redfin is doing begins to break down that
>ludicrous system, something I wholeheartedly applaud.

Uh, great, if the seller absolutely positively has the chops to sell his
own property, and doesn't get emotionally invested when he's supposed to
be negotiating with the buyer. Sellers are greedy fucks. It's amazing how
big a premium they expect just because it's their home.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Geoff Gass <glg@tanzenmb.com> wrote:
>>wtf?  I don't exactly agree with their "refund" moniker, but they're not
>>running a scam.  They're just a very low service realtor.  For a seller, that
>>means only paying commission to the buyer's agent.  For a buyer, that means
>>they rebate (or "refund" in their ads) part of the buyer's agent share to
>>the buyer.
>
> I've got to point out that the agent isn't the buyer's agent unless the
> buyer and agent have a contract. The agent the buyer is working with
> has a fiduciary duty to the seller as a sub-agent of the seller's agent
> if that contract does not exist. That means, if the buyer discloses a
> material fact (such as how much pressure he's under to move) to the
> agent, that fact is supposed to be reported to the seller. It's a
> bad deal for the buyer not to have representation in the negotiation.

that is completely and totally false.  Illinois law has what's called
"implied agency", meaning that if as a buyer, an agent shows you a property
and they are not the sellers agent (dual agency would come into play there),
they are automatically working for you and have a duty to you, not this
sub-agent bullshit.  no written contract is required.  Go read 225 ILCS
454/15, it spells all of it out.

> If buyer and agent have a contract, the buyer's agent still gets paid out
> of the proceeds of the sale.

duh.  and this is where the "refund" from redfin comes from.

> The dual agency concept is bullshit. You can't work for both parties
> in a negotiation.

completely agree.

In article glg@tanzenmb.com says...
> what you're too stupid to see is that it isn't the buyer being screwed here,
> it's the realtor system, as what redfin is doing begins to break down that
> ludicrous system, something I wholeheartedly applaud.

What you're too stupid to see is that in a real estate closing, every 
last dime going into every greedy pocket at the closing table comes from 
the buyer.  That is a simple undeniable fact.

On Mar 2, 5:08 pm, Mark Anderson <m...@nospambradnylion.com> wrote:
> Here's another commercial making the radio rounds that peaked my stupid
> meter.  I can understand the old rebate, refund, whatever trick working
> for consumer products costing 100s of dollars and even cars costing
> thousands of dollars.  But houses costing in the hundreds of thousand
> dollars?  People would fall for a refund trick when there are a so many
> other ways to lose out big in complicated real estate transactions?
>
> If I were in the market for a house I would run as fast as I could from
> an outfit like this.  Ironically, Redfin is listing a couple of houses
> in my neighborhood.  I never heard of them before.
>
> Here's where the above domain points to.
>
> http://www.redfin.com/about/landing-14

It means the mortgage swindlers are regrouping, like the killer
cyborg's liquid ooze in T2.

Mark Anderson <mea@nospambradnylion.com> wrote:
> In article glg@tanzenmb.com says...
>> what you're too stupid to see is that it isn't the buyer being screwed here,
>> it's the realtor system, as what redfin is doing begins to break down that
>> ludicrous system, something I wholeheartedly applaud.
>
> What you're too stupid to see is that in a real estate closing, every 
> last dime going into every greedy pocket at the closing table comes from 
> the buyer.  That is a simple undeniable fact.

tf?  I already said that.  I agree that their "refund" marketing is
bullshit.  It remains that this kind of rebate out of the buyer's agent
share has existed for a lot longer than redfin and bad marketing does not
make it a scam