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http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=92&thread=208584&start=0&range=15
&hilite=false&q=
I think Struts is a really nice implementation of MVC. It's certainly a lot 
quicker and easier to use than writing one yourself - I know, I've done both
!
If you have a specific question relating to Struts, I'll try to answer it.
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: ivanbatty
In Reply To: Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 12, 2002 10
:33 AM
Reply 3 of 39
I'd like to use struts instead of petstore for my future application. The on
ly problem is the implementation of an EJB framework on struts. You have to 
do it by yourself, and perhaps it could be too slow to implement!
Let me know your experience.
thanx
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: ken_robinson
In Reply To: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 12, 2002 11:02 
AM
Reply 4 of 39
I work in an environment where we must use STRUTS. My personal opinion of it
 is that it is worthless.
Keep in mind, I prefer system performance over anything else, and STRUTS doe
s add overhead.
In my opinion, STRUTS is smoke and mirrors. Instead of using the HttpRequest
 object to look for parameters, STRUTS requires that you build and object th
at extends the ActionForm (if I have the wrong name, please correct me). The
 set methods in this form must match the name of the parameter coming in (a 
TextBox with the name jimbo will only be set in a object with a setJimbo() m
ethod). Now, regardless of if you use the Request object or STRUTS form, you
 still need to know the names of the parameters you are looking for.
STRUTS then forwards the ActionForm to an Action. This is for the work you w
ant to do. A Servlet calls the doPost/doGet to do this.
STRUTS allows for a Mapping type structure. Using a return value from the lo
gic you've coded, it determines which JSP page to forward the request to. Th
is can be done very easy without STRUTS.
In my opinion, it is MUCH better to learn the Java Servlet specs instead of 
STRUTS. The arguement for using STRUTS is that it gives you an MVC environme
nt. If you think about this, the Servlet Container gives this to you already
. The client (Brower) is the view. Only the HTML/WML you send is seen by the
 client. JSPs where created just for this purpose. The web container and ser
vlets you develop are the controller. When you deploy a servlet, you can con
figure the URL or URL pattern that servlet will answer for. Servlets should 
only verify the incoming data and prepare the outgoing data. The JSP (view) 
will take that data and format it for the client. The Model is of course any
 data (usually a JDBC Database) that is used to perform the requested logic.

Why this needs to be changed is beyond me, especially considering the Servle
t spec provides for everything you should need.
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: SAFM3
In Reply To: Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 12, 2002 12
:02 PM
Reply 5 of 39
I agree with you Ken, 100%
I am currently involved in building reusable frameworks for our web infrastr
ucture. One of these frameworks is a template implemenetation of the Front C
ontroller pattern. I thought about using Struts instead of writing the code 
myself, but since Struts is not a standard, and, not to mention, implementin
g Front Controller is not very difficult, I choose to write the framework in
stead.
I'm a firm believer in using frameworks, but there are some that are worthle
ss, such as Struts. The overhead involved in learning Struts and customizing
 it for your environment can be spent writing the entire framework yourself.
 You will also learn much more about the Servlet API, as Ken mentioned, if y
ou write the framework yourself.
Even though Struts is 100% Java, it's still a 3rd party proprietary API, whi
ch means that if you implement it, your are dependent on it. Always stick to
 standards.
SAF
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: chiltown
In Reply To: Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 18, 2002 6:
42 AM
Reply 6 of 39
While struts is a 3rd party API, I would not be suprised if it became part o
f the J2EE servlet, JSP specification.
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: ken_robinson
In Reply To: Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 18, 2002 12
:37 PM
Reply 7 of 39
Why would you be surprised if STRUTS became a standard?
Everything STRUTS allows you to do can already be done. Why would SUN add th
e overhead of STRUTS while adding no new functionality?
Learn the Servlet/JSP specification, you'll be MUCH better off.
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: swatdba
In Reply To: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 18, 2002 12:57 
PM
Reply 8 of 39
There are a couple alternatives. One is XMLC by Enhydra and an increasingly 
popular one is webwork which is Rickard Obergs project on SourceForge.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/webwork
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: Howlingmad
In Reply To: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 20, 2002 5:10 A
M
Reply 9 of 39
Ken, i wouldn't call Struts worthless. It depends on what you're trying to d
o and what skills you're having in your company. While Struts is definitely 
useful for your web-centric applications, you'll need something else for you
r EJB-centric applications. While servlets are cool, i'm very happy with Str
uts' form handling. If you prefer system performance over anything else, you
'll almost always end up writing something by yourself. But what about contr
ibuting your performance tipps to the Struts developers?
SAF, i have to disagree with your 'The overhead involved in learning Struts 
and customizing it for your environment can be spent writing the entire fram
ework yourself.' For me this was simply not true. When i started with Struts
, it was somewhat difficult to get recent documentation but this has changed
. If you have a look at the Struts resources, you'll find a bunch of article
s, papers and the like. For 3rd party proprietary APIs: the Apache Software 
Foundation develops Struts, not somebody as proprietary as for example Micro
soft. Struts lead developer is a member of JSR052 and you get the full sourc
e code.
'Everything STRUTS allows you to do can already be done.' Well, everything J
ava allows you to do can already be done with C++. So why not stick with thi
s ISO standard?
And finally: this is version 1.0! Not much other software is that useful in 
such an early release. I'm personally very happy with Struts and recommend i
t for web-centric applications.
Markus
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: ken_robinson
In Reply To: Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 25, 2002 9:
33 AM
Reply 10 of 39
If it where my money I was spending to build an app, I would no doubt requir
e that the J2EE servlet spec be used.
In my opinion, any java web developer worth their weight will know servlets.
 This gives me a larger pool of talent to select from and allows for zero ti
me training on a internal/3rd party API.
I believe that there is ZERO reason to build a 'framework'. Again, I think t
he Servlet API is more than what is needed.
Sometimes I think people get sucked into the idea of following certain buzzw
ords like 'pattern' and 'framework'. EVERY application will have it's own re
quirments. I want to hire the person who can look at a set of requirements a
nd build an app using industry standard tools.
Just because you CAN fit an app into a pattern does not say you SHOULD make 
it fit a pattern.
As for frameworks, the application itself should dictate how it is built. To
o many times I have seen a simple problem solved in a way to requires too mu
ch overhead, just to conform to the current 'framework'. Frameworks should o
nly be used when they lower development/training time, not just to have one.

Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: Howlingmad
In Reply To: Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 26, 2002 9:
09 AM
Reply 11 of 39
ken, i agree with you that frameworks, patterns and the like can be used and
 abused (which applies to every technology, of course). One should only use 
a framework if it helps to solve the task at hand. And yes, servlets are ess
ential for web development. Anyway, i'll continue to have a look at framewor
ks and patterns and i encourage everybody to do the same. They give us somet
hing to think about, even if we don't use them.
Markus
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: scsulliv
In Reply To: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 26, 2002 12:37 
PM
Reply 12 of 39
Struts resources:
http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/index.html
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/library/j-struts/
Alternatives to Struts:
Tea
http://opensource.go.com/Tea/index.html
XMLC
http://xmlc.enhydra.org/
WebWork
http://sourceforge.net/projects/webwork/
Tapestry:
http://tapestry.sourceforge.net/
Maverick
http://mav.sourceforge.net/
Velocity:
http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/
WebMacro:
http://www.webmacro.org/
Jetspeed:
http://jakarta.apache.org/jetspeed/site/index.html
Jakarta Taglibs:
http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/index.html
Barracuda:
http://barracuda.enhydra.org/index.html
Freemarker:
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/
JSPTAGS:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jsptags
Related information:
http://barracuda.enhydra.org/cvs_source/Barracuda/docs/landscape.html
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/
http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/j2ee_patterns/model_view_controller/

Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: MartinS.
In Reply To: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 27, 2002 10:09 
AM
Reply 13 of 39
> Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
> Is there any other popular J2ee framework easy to use?
I think most Enterprises currently working in J2EE, roll their own J2EE fram
eworks. (I'm on my second), this is mainly because Struts is only just becom
ing complete. I think that in the future this is likely to change with a lot
 of late adoptors of J2EE starting to use Struts.
Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?
Author: Howlingmad
In Reply To: Re: Is Struts the most popular J2ee framework?  Feb 27, 2002 11
:47 PM
Reply 14 of 39
> I think most Enterprises currently working in J2EE, roll their own J2EE fr
ameworks.
Hrm, object-oriented programming has promised code-reuse for years now (or w
as that decades?), but still fails. When will this dream come true? Anyway, 
i'm having the impression that code-reuse works better for Java as for C++.
Thank god we're already in the 'post OOP era' and we're now entering the 'co
mponent-oriented programming era' which will do better, of course. :-)
Markus
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�ظ��ˣ�dragonjdh   �ظ�ʱ�䣺Thu Aug 22 17:17:05 CST 2002
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thanks,now I know what is strut!
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