🚀 go-pugleaf

Kurt Lochner (Weasel Remember!) wrote:
> Spamantha wheedled and pronounced pithy judgements upon:
> 
>>Kurt Lochner (Weasel Remember!) was laughing again at the expense of:
>>
>>>Sam actually replied in a rational manner to:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kurt Lochner left the recent edit in place this time:
> 
> _____>
> 
>>>>>>Fripp and his truly pompous noodlings, sadly I have...
>>>>>
>>>>>I shocked!  You actually do know of that group..  And Fripp's
>>>>>pomposity, as well..  Not that it isn't well-known, actually..
>>>>
>>>>I've sat through "In the Court of the Crimson King" more than a few times.
>>>
>>>I thought that _Discipline_ was going to improve the overall output,
>>>and _Beat_ had a couple tracks, but _Three of a Perfect Pair sucked,
>>>and _People_ was the only track to got me moving w/double trio stuff..
>>
>>I  confess to losing touch with them until the recent "Islands" offering.
> 
> 
> _Islands_ recent?  You're way fucked up then.  Fripp's gone way around
> the bend since, studying J.G. Bennet, which you might like to get to
> know better, as opposed to your fatalistic pseudo-christian beliefs
> being spoon-fed to you by the zealots in the "creation science" crowd..

http://www.robertfrippunplugged.com/frippfamilygrace.html

We bless the life that has died to give us food.

As a fisherman I too practice this basic dignity, you find it perhaps 
quaintly archaic?


>>Didn't Belew have a few worthy solo efforts?
> 
> 
> Yes, _Lone Rhinocerous_ is one that I have..

There we go, good recall.

>>>>Frankly if I want something less Gothic though uniquely Brit, my tastes
>>>>run to Wishbone Ash' seminal "Argus".
>>>
>>>Their jams were "longish" but otherwise top-notch stuff..
>>
>>"The King Will Come" and "Blowing Free" showed the brothers Turner 
>>at their best.
> 
> 
> _The Phoenix_ was one that attracted my attention..

Quite an opus - the "Live Dates" double album had a decent version.

>>>>>>Gad, what'll it be next,
>>>>>
>>>>>Bruford's "Earthworks", UK w/Holdsworth, Jobson and Wetton,
>>>>>Mahavishnu Orchestra, McLaughlin w/Paco del Lucio was good,
>>>>>though I'm kinda fond of Vince Guaraldi and Keith Jarrett
>>>>>in a similar way..  And don't forget Stravinski..
>>>>
>>>>McLaughlin handily reinvented himself, who'd have featured an
>>>>acoustic alter ego after "Birds of Fire"...
>>>
>>>Oh, there were hints of it, here and there..
>>
>>There were.
>>
>>
>>>>Early fusion was laden with its Devadipss. Most, like Carlos,
>>>>found less obtuse forms of expression.
>>>
>>>Carlos reinvented himself as well, though from the drink/drugs
>>>into a sober new genius, unlike McLaughlin, who finally said
>>>goodbye to the eastern esoterica (which is what you're supposed
>>>to do any ways, if you can take a hint).  I haven't gone looking
>>>up any of Michael Urbaniak's jazz violin work, though I pulled out
>>>_Fusion IV_ to dub off a track called _Chinatown_ that flipped me
>>>out dozens of years ago..
>>
>>I wonder what Jean Luc Ponty's been up to of late, or Billy Cobham, 
>>or for that matter Stanley Jordan.
> 
> 
> You could look that up..
> 
> http://www.ponty.com/
> 
> http://www.billycobham.com/
> 
> http://www.stanleyjordan.com/

Neat - all still producing. Almost makes me want to sign up with my jazz 
club again.

>>>>Bill Frissel intrigues me these days.
>>>>
>>>>And occasionally I ruminate on what Bill Nelson might have done
>>>>with his talent.
>>>
>>>Not too familiar with their work, rings bells, but no Pavlovian
>>>response..
>>
>>Nelson was the darling of the late 70's move to art rock, his Be Bop
>>Deluxe' "Sunburst Finish" remains a treat.
> 
> 
> Hrmm, forgettable, in my view..

History appends that he was indeed of merit, I really need to work some 
of that old vinyl out of storage and revisit the beginnings before 
sampling the newer material.

http://www.billnelson.com/start.htm

http://imperium.lenin.ru/~verbit/Music/AlCrawford.html

Polished instrumental. There's several possible contenders here. If you
want something more uptempo go for the Orchestra Arcana disc _Optimism_.
This has lots of cheerful, happy, tape snippet laden songs. It's as close
as Bill has ever got to dance music. The other Orchestra Arcana album
_Iconography_ is also excellent but is rather more laid-back.  The _Map Of
Dreams_ soundtrack is also highly recommended although it's much more
varied than the others and a little strange in places.

>>Bill Frisell (sp) was a Nashville sessions man who branched way out.
>>
>>http://www.songtone.com/artists/frisell_link.htm
> 
> 
> Now, I'd heard of him, through the musicians union I belong to..
> 
> http://www.billfrisell.com/
> 
> 
>>Think of him as a less trite Pat Metheny...
> 
> 
> That's pretty freakin' trite, btw..  

It would be if Frisell had stayed primarily country/relaxed in his 
thematic choices - as it happens he went far afield and managed to craft 
some rather edgy and sonicly complex compositions, ones marked by odd 
time signatures, seemingly discordant sub textual rythmn lines, and 
deceptively simple lead passages crafted into a cohesively mutli-level 
listening experience. In short, ear candy that retains enough complexity 
to prompt repeated examination.


> I've been more into bass
> until recently, so having been accused of being another Jaco
> Pastorius around my little town was more of a black mark..
> Between Jaco and Jeff Berlin, I'm pretty difficult to be around
> sometimes, if you can't play..

It's been some time since I thought much about the bass, save for the 
Peacock variant...

>>auric satisfaction minus the stultifying repetition, 
>>and he has no problem changing idioms at will.
> 
> 
> Ever heard of Michael Hedges?

He is well represented in my collection, I find him an enjoyable road 
trip companion. The same holds for Peter White.

And too, there's  Bob Culbertson, playing a variant of the Chapman 
stick, whose work I enjoy, though more so in person than on CD, where 
the recordings fall short of the richness one gets in a good intimate room.

He shows up here at one of the upscale malls near the holidays, and even 
amidst the banal clatter of a cacophonous food court his impromptu 
request sessions manage to salve the moo cow mall rat melee into a state 
of bliss.

He's a fun guy to talk to as well, no pretensions at all.

http://www.btinternet.com/~third.bass/bobculbertson.html


>>>>>>Fairport Convention, the Pentangle, Mussorgsky revised?
>>>>>
>>>>>Keith Emerson did that, though there are several other compositions
>>>>>that most folks have never even heard of that were much better in
>>>>>that vein,
>>>>
>>>>I trust so, his keyboard work was, for the most part, ham fisted, imo.
>>>
>>>I agree (shocked?) though I did catch the abortive _The Score_ tour
>>>lacking Yngvie Maalm-something, and there was room for quite the
>>>acoustic piano w/midi accompaniment that was breath-taking..
>>
>>Good to know that freed of the electronics he could evince some nuance.
> 
> 
> I guess you're also not familiar with what MIDI is..

You said accompaniment, was he not playing acoustic piano then?

> The slight touch of chimes on one piece was quite a joy, 
> Greg looked over and asked if he'd like to play another one, just
> for grins..  I guess you're also not familiar with what MIDI is..

Musical interactive digital interface - or what we used to call rythmn 
boxes, no?

>>Whilst I have been wowed by David Mamet's early work, this once 
>>hidden E Street talent has never let me down:
>>
>>http://www.davidsancious.com/
>>
>>A trip back in time to "The Wild, the Innocent, and the E Street
>>Shuffle" is all any ear need catch.
> 
>  
> Standard stuff these days..
> 
> I've gone back to 12-string of late, might have to pick up some
> of the early Leo Kotke, already working on Joni Mitchell and CSN&Y..

Kotke's "Pamela Brown" is on my top ten list of all time great country 
songs.

And his take on "8 Miles High" still churns with vitality.


> Though, these next pieces have my interest as well..
> 
> 
>>>>>and I've just recently picked up on the soundtrack for
>>>>>_Brother Bear_ with scores and direction from Phil Collins as well
>>>>>as Eddie Jobson, who wrote the theme to _Young and the Restless_..
>>>>>
>>>>>So yes, Fripp's a bit of a pompous ass, but you can't argue with
>>>>>his technical prowess, just the way he's extended the whole "Larks
>>>>>Tongue In Aspic" and "Fractured" themes into meaningless dirges..
>>>>
>>>>Oh that brings to mind some old memories...
>>>
>>>Henh!  Quit telling on yourself..
>>
>>Pity they're not appreciating assets...
> 
> 
> Well, I'd recommend not pushing your 'faith' upon anyone
> but yourself, as it's considered 'scripturally sound' to 
> practice such in private, in many cultures, except for ours, 
> it seems..  

Faith is merely a subject divider, no specific dogma was evinced.

Would that science be any less forcefully fed in our society than religion.


> You Straussians are quite the piece of work,
> fucked up, but you really have to work at it..

I'm no strict adherent of Strauss, his antipathy for democracy leaves me 
cold. Now you can counter that his impact is broadly represented in the 
neoconservative movement, and in doing so you'd as well have to cite 
Bloom and Jaffa as two sides of a unit coin. And quite a variance there 
is between the eso and exo-teric expressions.

You're spot on with one parry though, I decry liberalism as a more 
costly form of collective nannying than our social structures can bear 
with any lasting efficacy.

>>>>You're way too fussy,
>>>
>>>You left out 'crude', 'rude' and 'boisterously vulgar'..
>>
>>Blast, and ruin the party by passing out all the favors 
>>before the punch has been puked in?
> 
>  
> Henh!  I don't drink, sorry..

No reason you ought be!

>>>>though quite in character both musically and scientifically.
>>>
>>>I am awake, what you are, isn't.  Deal with it as you may..
>>
>>I suspect your hyper-literal wakefulness may be as restive 
>>a state as you perceive my adjudged paucity of scientific 
>>grooming to be.
> 
> 
> Nope, I do not worship graven images, I am awake, in the Zen
> sense of the word.

Your literal wakefulness, left unbridged by sleep, is said to produce 
potent delusions.

> I do not chafe much at religious trappings,
> just the fools that think I *MUST* believe as they do, which
> I don't.

I'm selling no specific variant here.

>  You've falsely presumed that being a scientist just
> automatically disqualifies me from having a 'religious belief'
> in the way that you can understand it.  That's false and full
> of misleading ways to deceive yourself into thinking that you're
> the only one who understands how to worship a deity..

You've presumed that rote worship is the sole manner of successfully 
interacting with the Creator. Does that presage a literal religious 
propensity or were you merely employing the traditional idiomatic terms 
to portray what you feel my aims to be?

> Oh, you're a straussian neoconservative pseudo-scientist..
> You're like that guy that was soliciting suicides..  *>LOL!<*

Hardly, but I'll warrant that unbridled liberalism is at first economic 
and later spiritual suicide.

>>>>How many species might one encounter grooving with a Pict anyway?
>>>
>>>Several..  Aye an' a bit of Mackeral settler rack and ruinran it doon..
>>
>>Heh, 7 to be precise..all furry...
> 
> 
> Better check that ax Eugene, it's "several", not seven..

Correct you are, Hounds baehhh!

> http://lyricsdownload.com/pink-floyd-several-species-of-small-furry-animals-gathered-to-lyrics.html
>  
> 
>>>>>Oh, and speaking of "meaningless dirges", weren't you the psychotic
>>>>>whiner that was bitching about finding/putting together fossil
>>>>>remnants from a primate(s) together to resemble a human ancestor?
>>>>
>>>>Just citing the known, and decrying the use of whole cloth or femur to
>>>>flesh out the unknown...
>>>
>>>Hrmm, I can see your point, but the reassigning behind it, though not
>>>readily apparent, is sound enough to pass peer-review with consideration
>>>towards several other forms/sub-species that appears to correlate well
>>>enough that DNA testing, when possible, along with dating technologies,
>>>puts together a time-line and 'family tree' of sorts that seems to hold
>>>up well to regular scrutiny.
>>
>>Meaning that it's of less than trial-tested solidity.
> 
> 
> You aren't qualified to make that call, pseudo-scientist..

I've qualifications enough to parse the material in play and spot some 
obvious reaches.

>>Hardly even convictable, had Lucy, or even her paleontological
>>suitors purloined a lesser primate's drumstick for sustenance...
> 
> 
> Drumstick?

<g>

> Bullshit..  You wouldn't know, and are again dishonestly presuming
> to know the underlying background material, that you don't..

I know the reaches are evident.

> Not King Crimson, not Pink Floyd, nope, you're fucked up..
>  
> Now I see why..

I retired my Floyd and Crimson vinyl to storage, interesting memories, 
but I'm more interested in classic Brubeck and some of the acoustic 
guitarists cited these days.

>>>Hrmm, I can see your point, but the reassigning behind it, though not
>>>readily apparent, is sound enough to pass peer-review with consideration
>>>towards several other forms/sub-species that appears to correlate well
>>>enough that DNA testing, when possible, along with dating technologies,
>>>puts together a time-line and 'family tree' of sorts that seems to hold
>>>up well to regular scrutiny.  Admittedly, one can oftener see the desire
>>>to believe, on the behalf of such studies, rather than the underlying
>>>work that the more recent studies are built upon, but to pick just one
>>>'site' of excavation to question the entire work, or even suggest an
>>>alternative scenario, such as a continental 'flood' is not going to be
>>>taken seriously by many, if at all..
>>
>>So you found the larger campus to be less than cozy when unveiled?
> 
> 
> Excuse you, what sort of rhetorical question is that?

Simple - the narrow argument over paleontological completeness at best 
hints at something we'll have a far harder time comprehending, and an 
equally unsuccessful one documenting - that our origins are most likely 
engineered; and if true, we need revisit more of our religious and 
scientific orthodoxy than as a species we seem willing to.

>>Rest assured that with examination and familiarity [..]
> 
> 
> Oh, you're back to that 'great deluge' of which there's
> no record of, in any fossil records..  If anything, you'd
> see more droughts than floods, though I suppose you never 
> bothered to look up Velikovsky, as I suggested earlier..

Actually some years back I perused the Russian's premise, amongst others 
like Hapgood's, in John White's "Pole Shift".

> Nope, you're being dishonest..  Why am I not surprised.. 

Am I?

You're unlikely to have the divinational acumen to make that judgment.

>>>>>That's contemptible bovine excretia, on your lame behalf, and it
>>>>>indicates just how little you know about the fossil record of the
>>>>>species that flourished before Neanderthal Republicanass'..
>>>>
>>>>I know this, our fascination with claiming primate ancestry is one
>>>>Ward Churchill away from ludicrous.
>>>
>>>I see, so you don't especially see eye-to-eye with Dr. Churchill's views
>>>on how we've inculcated acts of terrorism on our homeland.  Most of you
>>>right-wing so-called "conservatives" wouldn't want to own up to that,
>>>having supported all sorts of illegal activities, including
>>>Iran-Contra..
>>
>>Neither here nor there, [..]
> 
> 
> But, you mentioned it as an aside, now you brush it off..

That I do, inconsequential in the long run.

>>I suspect our cumulative foreign "aid" far eclipses any weight
>>of military meddling we might, in final analysis, be held as 
>>less than puritan.
> 
> 
> "less than puritan"??  That's a quaint way to put off the way
> our current misdeeds are catching up to us, having propped up
> dictators, helped both sides to wage war against each other
> and profited from most of it, including WWII in Prescott Bush's
> day..  And, you think it's the end of days..  What a cop-out..

I'm not willing to state that this IS the "end of days", though hearty 
arguments can be made for the scenario.

Additionally our interaction with "dictators" is par for a dodgy course. 
What other kind of leaders do you find in the immediate vicinity anyway?

That we worked hard to keep communism from gaining a toehold is no bad 
thing. That we still face military meddling from the former Soviet Union 
in Syria and Iraq today handily proves the need for _some form_ of 
intervention.

>>>There's more to this Iraq (and an oil slick) than meets the eye,
>>>and W. Bush would do well to bury the matter well before the end
>>>of his term, or there will be a severe price to pay for him and
>>>his corporate cronies..  The sins of the father will be visited..
>>
>>The trail is deep and black, but Balfour's tar pit [..]
> 
> 
> I see, so your head really *IS* buried up your ass again..

I see, you deny the British culpability in all this?

It's rather obvious who drew the boundaries, and too that we were at 
best late guests in the process.

That we're last at the table in indeed unfortunate, but for the present 
unavoidable given a Luddite enviro-whacko domestic presence.

>>>Let's hope that you will begin to open your eyes to the possibility
>>>that you're wrong to think that other cultures, thousands of years
>>>older than our own, will convert, seemingly overnight, to our ways
>>>of living.  That is both cowardly and foolish, and our enemies will
>>>play upon that as a weakness.
>>
>>I suspect that you might miss the corrosively pervasive decay of 
>>our own consumer culture, one that has marginalized the family[..]
> 
> 
> I've already put that aside,

Have you now?

And to what fate have you relegated it?

> despite your dishonest conjectures
> to the contrary, and I suspect that it is you that will have to
> endure the terrors that your beliefs seem to dictate for you,
> despite the fact that you're completely wrong.  Nobody's going
> to tolerate you and yours pissing away this nation..

There will be no nation to spar over if we terminate the very fuel it 
runs on - cogitate on that for awhile.

> Better get used that fact, your beliefs, apocalyptic and all,
> will become a self-fulfilling nightmare and no one seemed to
> be able to talk you out of your emotionally-driven miasma..

You label me as apocalyptic, yet history records that at any given 
moment, from Flanders to Fatima mankind has found call to expect the 
end. I'm content then to note, so far so good...

>>>Let's hope that you will begin to open your eyes to the possibility
>>>that you're wrong to think that other cultures, thousands of years
>>>older than our own, will convert, seemingly overnight, to our ways
>>>of living.  That is both cowardly and foolish, and our enemies will
>>>play upon that as a weakness. Rest assured that they take a 'blood
>>>feud' way more seriously than a simple Hatfield-McCoy scenario, and
>>>having gone to school with several varieties of these cultures, I
>>>do know what I'm talking about from first-hand experiences, not just
>>>some talking gas-bag on the radio or television..
>>
>>Their primitive blood wars will be safely channeled into 
>>controllable models like GTA -San Andreas and swiftly marketed[..]
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  

Hardly.

They crave our pop culture, and our culture has a corrosively addictive 
cycle of behavioral modifications.

>>Simply put, no one stands a chance.
> 
> 
> *>LOL!<*  So, that means you don't have to do a thing, it's all
> foretold/preordained and there's nothing to be done about it?
> 
> You're really fucked up if you're buying into that death-cult..

It means that for the present the lure of goods and liberties will 
easily outweigh narrow Islamic fundamentalism - trust me.

Whether the eventual hybrid is viable is another mater, though almost 
anything would be an improvement over the extant Renaissance deprived 
wailing that pervades the region.

>>Far better to be the host than the recipient, at least we can 
>>claim parental immunity.
> 
> 
> Spamantha, you're starting to sound irrational now..


Not for a moment, we authored this pop culture, to that extent we best 
understand and can draw back from it's propensity to break down *all* 
social barriers.

>>I rather preferred our overt sparring Kurt, 
> 
> 
> *>LOL!<*  You call what you're writing "sparring"?  You've
> returned yet again, completely unarmed to a battle of wits..

And you've slid back into delusions of grandeur, though I suspect they 
offer comfort in lieu of any real compact of ideas.

>>this has degenerated into a more communicative dialog than 
>>I normally prefer in this medium.
> 
> 
> I can understand why, you have some really fucked-up beliefs,
> spawned by a belief in the Straussian "neoconservative" mind-set,
> and you've really told on yourself this time..

Have I?

Philosophy is not, for me at least, a prison of dogmatic solidity, one 
can pick and choose.

> Look at the bright side of this, tomorrow you'll wake up in the
> same world as today, the suffering of the world will not be aided
> one bit by your charming but antiquated beliefs in an apocalypse,
> and you think that you'll not be held responsible when they start 
> passing out the kool-aide..

You and O'Reilly really have it in for the wrong manufacturer.

It was Flav-Or-Aid, grape in fact, and still in production lo these many 
years later.

As for the Apocalypse, time enough to deal with that should it occur, 
not "when"...

> Fine, good riddance to you and your prejudiced pronouncements..
> 
> --If, on the other hand you decide to wake up from that nightmare..

To what, Swedish socialism?

Norwegian inflation?

Finnish paranoia?