🚀 go-pugleaf

Trevor Wilson wrote:
> "Sam Stone" <sirian@mental.org> wrote in message 
> news:Rx2Ad.1636812$SM5.132115@news.easynews.com...
> 
>>Bama Brian wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>When a species determines its level of awareness, either morally, 
>>>>scientifically, or otherwise it is always pertinent to examine the 
>>>>process and see if it is inherently representative of the biases of its 
>>>>authors.
>>>
>>>
>>>The problem for the Creationists is that the scientific method simply 
>>>works whether one believes in it or not, while a belief in the Bible or 
>>>in God as the Creator is a circular argument, with no basis whatsoever in 
>>>fact.
>>
>>Hmmm...
>>
>>It strikes me there is still a significant, though rather tattered, 
>>re-translated, even maddeningly incomplete transcribed record of our 
>>origins, one measured in the eye of the day, both ethical and societal.
>>
>>In essence the Bible, and its root scrolls, are early science 
>>(observation) and history all pasted together.
> 
> 
> **No. There is no science of any recognisable kind in the Bible. There is 
> some history, some poetry and some philosophy. There is a good deal of 
> hysterical ranting too. There's no science.

Dead WRONG!

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

Statements Consistent With Physics
The Bible suggests the presence of nuclear processes like those we 
associate with nuclear weaponry. This is certainly not something that 
could have been explained in 67 AD using known scientific principles 
(when Peter wrote the following verse).


2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the 
heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt 
with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be 
burned up.


The television is a practical (if not always worthwhile  ) device that 
uses electromagnetic waves (which transmit its video signal). The Bible 
contains passages that describe something like television�something that 
allows everyone on earth see a single event. (Note: such passages 
typically refer to the end of time. It may not be long before all of us 
learn for sure whether the Bible is true or not.)

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the 
tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming 
on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Revelation 11:9-11
Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their 
dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be 
put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over 
them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two 
prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Now after the 
three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they 
stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.


http://www.kjvbible.org/greenland_ice_sheet.html

In July 1993, the Greenland Ice Sheet Project Two (GISP2) completed 
drilling down 3,053.44 meters through the ice and 1.55 meters beyond 
into the underlying bedrock. From this was recovered the deepest ice 
core record to date. One year earlier the European Greenland Ice Core 
Project (GRIP) recovered a core to a depth of 3,028.8 meters at a site 
30 kilometers east of GISP2. Comparative data between these two deep 
cores have allowed scientists to develop an ice core-derived 
paleoenvironmental record dating back greater than 110,000 years BP (BP 
means "before present" and "BP" is defined as 1950).

The establishment of this 100,000+ year BP record of Earth's atmospheric 
history in the ice has been fairly well calibrated with proxy dating 
methods. The annual layer counting of visible ice stratification, when 
compared to radiocarbon extracted from the CO2 gas trapped within the 
ice and other measurement techniques, has yielded an age error factor of 
about 2% from present to 11.64 years BP; about 5% to 17.38 years BP; and 
10% to about 40,000 years BP. In other words, the ice has been confirmed 
to be as old as the collective measurements indicate. These data alone 
destroy the core doctrine of the theory of Young Earth Creationism, that 
of the Earth being only about 6,000 years old.

In addition to the actual age of the ice at any given depth in the core, 
scientists can also determine the mean temperature of the Earth's past 
climate for different times and ages by measuring the ratio of the 
isotopes of oxygen (O16 and O18) gas present in the CO2. Full details of 
this and other techniques and further references to GISP2 and GRIP 
projects can be read in full at The GISP2 Ice Core Record - Paleoclimate 
Highlights page.

Secular critics of Young Earth Creationism cite the very existence of 
the Greenland Ice Sheet and the paleoenvironmental record it contains 
(as well as the data found in ice cores from the glaciers on Kilimanjaro 
in Africa and Huascaran in Peru) as absolute proof that the Earth is 
older than 6,000 years and that Noah's flood did not occur, since there 
are no indications of a flood in the ice core layers. On the first point 
they are absolutely correct. On the second point, we disagree that the 
lack of direct evidence in the ice proves that a global flood did not 
take place at all. There is certainly "indirect" evidence to consider.

The ice core records, whether in Greenland or mountain top glaciers 
around the globe, are replete with "melt" indicators. These are layers 
where an indeterminate amount of the surface ice has been melted between 
accumulations. The resolution of the layer dating at GISP2 is about 3.8 
years. Therefore, pinning down a one-year flood sequence to definitively 
prove or disprove Noah's flood in the ice core record is problematic. 
Whether the ice was floated off its anchor rock by Noah's flood, or 
remained stuck fast to the rock and was submerged by the flood waters, 
would make no difference. In either scenario the top layers would have 
been washed over by fresh (not salt) water, resulting in a "melt" layer 
or hiatus in accumulation. In the former case by rains; in the latter 
case through inundation by a rapidly rising fresh water lens. (See the 
sections on Noah's flood for fresh water explanation.) What is important 
is the fact that the Greenland Ice Sheet and mountain glaciers exist and 
have calibrated dated layer points. We can learn from them if we know 
what to look for and where.

If our Bible is true when it tells us Noah's flood was a real and global 
event that according to the Biblical chronology happened about 2,345 
B.C. (roughly 4,295 BP), and if the GISP2 and GRIP data are also true, 
the only possible explanation is that the bulk of the material which 
constitutes the basement of the present Greenland Ice Sheet somehow 
survived that flood. Actually, it would have needed to survive two 
floods, as the Earth was also flooded before the six-day regeneration 
(see Genesis 1:2). If that is true, the Paleoclimate data from the ice 
cores can give us insight into environmental conditions, not only after 
the six days of Genesis 1, but also before the six days. What has 
accumulated on the ice since Noah's flood can tell us about the 
environment from then until the present.



>>That the record is incomplete in spots, contradictory in others, yet oddly 
>>coincident across diverse geographically isolated populations indeed hints 
>>at a root commonality that is compelling.
> 
> 
> **Really? Explain the commonality between, say, Australian Aboriginals, 
> Hindu scriptures and Christian Creationists, then. They are WILDLY different 
> in their attempts to explain things they had no hope of understanding. The 
> Hindus got close, with their estimates of time. That's about it.0

Inundation.

>>Lacking but a sporadic frequency of accepted prophets to carry the message 
>>of the Creator we choose to either accept or reject His essence based on 
>>His inability to be measured by our instruments and physical reality.
>>
>>Yet His periodicity is in most records more frequent than the global 
>>innundation we know also occurs from time to time.
> 
> 
> **Huh? Which "Global inundation" would that be? Given that there is not a 
> shred of evidence of such a thing, 

Moron.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s215317.htm

Global warming could be on the verge of triggering a rise in sea levels 
that would flood huge areas of the Earth's most densely populated regions.

New Scientist reports that an unpublished report from the world's top 
climate scientists says the process would take a thousand years or more, 
but would be "irreversible" once under way.

http://www.grahamhancock.com/underworld/AshCF1.php?p=1

Graham Hancock, in his latest book, Underworld, proposes that a number 
(unknown) of sophisticated, urban civilizations disappeared at the close 
of the Ice Age. A catastrophic rise in global sea level at that time, 
according to Hancock, had fatal consequences for these maritime peoples, 
as the lands upon which they had chosen to settle were just those lands 
most susceptible to flooding.

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/gn/gn047/worldwideflood.htm

One of the most fascinating scientific discoveries in recent times 
regarding a universal flood came from some scientists who were not 
searching for any evidence of the Flood. It came from oceanographers in 
the Gulf of Mexico who were doing some rather routine research on coral 
and sediments of the ocean floor.

Their two oceanographic vessels had pulled from the bottom of the Gulf 
of Mexico several long, slender core samples of the sediment, which 
includes the fossil shells of one-celled plankton called foraminifera. 
While still alive, these organisms lock into their shells a chemical 
record of the temperature and salinity of the water. When they 
reproduce, the shells fall away and drop to the bottom. A cross-section 
of that ocean bed carries a record of climates that the oceanographers 
say go back more than 100 million years.

The cores were analyzed in two different investigations�by Cesar 
Emiliani of the University of Miami, and by James Kennett of the 
University of Rhode Island and Nicholas Shack of Cambridge University. 
Both analyses pointed to a dramatic drop in the salinity of the water, 
providing compelling evidence of a vast flood of fresh water into the 
Gulf of Mexico thousands of years ago.

Cesar Emiliani explains the results: �A huge amount of ice-melt water 
rushed into the Gulf of Mexico and produced a sea-level rise that spread 
around the world with the speed of a tidal wave.� He adds, �We know this 
because the oxygen isotope ratios of the foraminifera shells show a 
marked temporary decrease in the salinity of the waters of the Gulf of 
Mexico. It clearly shows that there was a major period of flooding from 
12,000 to 10,000 years ago, with a peak about 11,600 years ago. There is 
no question that there was a flood and there is also no question that it 
was a universal flood� (�Noah, the Flood, the Facts,� Reader�s Digest, 
U.S. edition, September 1977, p. 133).