🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:26:23 -0700, nospam@me.com (W A Collier) wrote:

>In article <77mnhi$sjt$1@news1.rmi.net>, dand@rmi.net says...
>> In co.general Drew Eckhardt <drew@village.org> wrote:
>> ->>How has your right to keep and bear a firearm been infringed by
>> ->>a concealed carry ban?  
>> 
>> ->Carrying concealed is a form of bearing arms.
>> 
>> Your right to keep and bear arms has NOT been infringed by
>> requiring a permit to carry concealed.
>> 
>
>Ah but it has if the abitrary and capricous denial of my application for 
>a concealed carry permit is turned down by the local sherrif because the 
>local pols dont want concealed carries issued.

No, it hasn't, because you *do not have* such a right under the state
constitution.  That is exactly what the language says....that you
*cannot* make a constitutional claim under state law that you have a
"right" to carry a concealed weapon.   Thus, in Colorado, it is a
*priviledge*, not a right, and a priviledge can be denied for *any*
reason, so long as the government does not act arbitrarily....which it
isn't so long as the government, which means your local pols, has made
a rule which they believe achieves some reasonable public
purpose....like keeping concealed weapons out of the hands of
citizens...which is a judgement they ARE allowed to make....indeed,
the Sheriff or Chief of Police makes the decision, and so long as they
have *some* kind of rational argument for not issuing permits, there's
not a darned thing you can do about it, and you'll find that every
CLEO who refuses to issue permits has a well-thought-out position,
straight from the HCI handbook, as to why...which the courts will give
full deference to.

Whether it violates the 2nd Amendment or not is moot, because the 2nd
Amendment has not been applied to the states...yet...and the Court has
ruled that it's only a bar on *federal* actions, and that the state
Constitutions define gun owner's rights within the states.

> I think they should have 
>to show cause why I personally cannot carry a concealed weapon (i.e. 
>explain why they are denying that facet of my 2nd amendment rights), 
>rather than for me to prove to their (arbitrary) satisfaction that I need 
>to carry a concealed weapon. 

I agree.   But that's not how the law is now....but it is how it might
be if you get behind Senator Chlouber and his seventh annual CCW bill.



> In other words, Im pissed because the 
>sherrif can deny me the conceled carry "just because" with no recouse on 
>my part for the arbitrary application of the law.

Yup, and I waited over 15 years for my Sheriff to change...and to
change his mind.

>  The only people they 
>routinely issue those permits to are other cops and ex-cops.  I'm a 
>former soldier who put it on the line for my country and Constitution, 
>and have every bit as good a training as they do - I probably have more 
>range time than most cops as I put at least 400 rounds of 40-S&W through 
>my glock at least every other weekend.  But I cant get a carry permit 
>because "the simply arent issued" (as was told to me) since I live inside 
>Aurora city limits (for now - Im moving to CO Springs this summer).

Yup, a very common complaint.   However, you should ask if they have a
application and get one, and fill it out and submit it *anyway*.   One
of the questions asked at several hearings by the anti-gunners on the
Judiciary Committee was "Have you actually applied for a permit and
been turned down?"   When the person said "no", they were summarily
dismissed because they hadn't even tried....even though everybody
knows it's a pointless waste of money to try in the Metro area.  The
point being that it's *not* a pointless waste of money, it's a
necessary part of proving that the rules *are* arbitrary.   The
legislators rightly don't give much credence to "well, I don't *think*
I can get a permit because everybody told me they wouldn't give me
one."   They need to hear "Yes, I applied and was denied, which cost
me $150 for the investigation, and I was told when I submitted my
application that it would be denied, which makes their decision
arbitrary and capricious."  or "I tried to get the form, but the
Sheriff/COP refused to give me one."  or "I filled out the form but
the department refused to process it, saying that they didn't issue
any such permits."   Then you need to also present the list of people
they *have* issued permits to...which are public record...to impeach
them further.

It's all part of the strategy and the political game involved.

>I guess I just rambled on, but the point is, my rights shouldnt be 
>subject to the arbitrary abridgement by local law enforcement.

So go to the legislative hearings and testify, or write letters to the
Senate Judiciary Committee voicing your feelings (but do it politely
and reasonably so they can't use your words as evidence of how loony
gun owners are.  I can't begin to tell you how damaging it is, and how
much harder it makes our efforts, when some angry citizen makes
anonymous deaths threats against the Chairman of the Committee...it
*really* pisses her off and makes her that much less likely to agree
to let the bill out of committee.

If it gets out of committee, then take the time and trouble to fire up
your word processor and your mail merge program and send individual
letters to *every* representative and *every* senator at the state
house timed to get there in time for the floor debate. 

It's worth the effort, and I do it every year....and I get letters of
thanks for my input from many legislators, most of them personal
replies, not form letters.

Write cogently and argue politely and pursuasively, remembering that
you depend on their largesse and you must pursuade not bully them, and
you can make a difference.


Regards,

Scott Weiser

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