🚀 go-pugleaf

Why?

Most of the experienced people here who've commented, some with and some
without certification, believe that the certification only serves to help
inexperienced developers get in the door. That is, given the choice between
two inexperienced developers, an employer is likely to choose the one with
certification. Given the choice between an experienced developer and an
inexperienced developer with certification, most believe the employer is
likely to choose the experienced one.

There are other organizations offering certification, but it also seems here
to be a concensus, if not unanimous, view, that certifications from the
manufacturer of the product are the only ones to which anyone pays
attention.

I'd wager that this isn't high enough on the radar scope of most experienced
developers here that they even realized there was/is no longer an MCP
certification for Access. Many here might comment that, given their
perception of Microsoft's view of Access developers and as a development
tool, it's not surprising.

Hmm. Maybe someone should develop a "spoof site"... International Institute
for Database Certification, or something... where anyone who wanted a
"title" could get one. It'd be worth just as much as those "degrees from
prestigious non-accredited universities" about which we frequently receive
spam, and probably a lot less expensive. I call those "non-degrees from
non-prestigious non-accredited non-universities". <G>

"fast track" <fastrack1966@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1001505272.84295.1@eos.uk.clara.net...
> As someone with six years database experience but no certif. I find it
> difficult to believe that there is no longer an MCP for Access? Does
anyone
> know of an exam at a similar level of database design, i.e. not MOUS,
> offered by MS or any other certification body please?
>
> Brian J
>
>

Thanks for advice, but here in the UK there is an increasing trend for
preferring staff with any kind of formal qualification in IT. My added
disadvantage is that I'm nearly 49 years old and twelve years in PC Support
without a smart certificate is counting for less, but I guess ageism is a
subject for another newsgroup?

Brian J
Larry Linson <larry.linson@ntpcug.org> wrote in message
news:tkqs7.120$ic3.580309@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net...
> Why?
>
> Most of the experienced people here who've commented, some with and some
> without certification, believe that the certification only serves to help
> inexperienced developers get in the door. That is, given the choice
between
> two inexperienced developers, an employer is likely to choose the one with
> certification. Given the choice between an experienced developer and an
> inexperienced developer with certification, most believe the employer is
> likely to choose the experienced one.
>
> There are other organizations offering certification, but it also seems
here
> to be a concensus, if not unanimous, view, that certifications from the
> manufacturer of the product are the only ones to which anyone pays
> attention.
>
> I'd wager that this isn't high enough on the radar scope of most
experienced
> developers here that they even realized there was/is no longer an MCP
> certification for Access. Many here might comment that, given their
> perception of Microsoft's view of Access developers and as a development
> tool, it's not surprising.
>
> Hmm. Maybe someone should develop a "spoof site"... International
Institute
> for Database Certification, or something... where anyone who wanted a
> "title" could get one. It'd be worth just as much as those "degrees from
> prestigious non-accredited universities" about which we frequently receive
> spam, and probably a lot less expensive. I call those "non-degrees from
> non-prestigious non-accredited non-universities". <G>
>
> "fast track" <fastrack1966@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1001505272.84295.1@eos.uk.clara.net...
> > As someone with six years database experience but no certif. I find it
> > difficult to believe that there is no longer an MCP for Access? Does
> anyone
> > know of an exam at a similar level of database design, i.e. not MOUS,
> > offered by MS or any other certification body please?
> >
> > Brian J
> >
> >
>
>

In article <1001575619.72889.1@eos.uk.clara.net>, fast track
<fastrack1966@clara.co.uk> writes
>Thanks for advice, but here in the UK there is an increasing trend for
>preferring staff with any kind of formal qualification in IT. My added
>disadvantage is that I'm nearly 49 years old and twelve years in PC Support
>without a smart certificate is counting for less, but I guess ageism is a
>subject for another newsgroup?
>
>
Dunno about staff, but I'm contracting as a database developer, mainly
based on my Access skills and I left my last permie job at the age of
49.
-- 
Albert Marshall
Database Developer
Marshall Le Botmel Ltd
01242 222017

"Larry Linson" <larry.linson@ntpcug.org> wrote:

>Hmm. Maybe someone should develop a "spoof site"... International Institute
>for Database Certification, or something... where anyone who wanted a
>"title" could get one. 

Wasn't there a spam a year or two back along these lines?  With an online test you
could take?

Tony
----
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
   Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can 
read the entire thread of messages.
   Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

In article <1001575619.72889.1@eos.uk.clara.net>
           fastrack1966@clara.co.uk "fast track" writes:

> Thanks for advice, but here in the UK there is an increasing trend for
> preferring staff with any kind of formal qualification in IT. My added
> disadvantage is that I'm nearly 49 years old and twelve years in PC Support
> without a smart certificate is counting for less, but I guess ageism is a
> subject for another newsgroup?

I'm 54 with 18 years experience in IT, including teaching at a university. I
am now losing out to people with very little experience but with a bit of
paper.  One friend is now teaching IT at a local college and I know for a
fact that she had never touched a computer until three years ago and until
recently only used one for word-processing.  She went out and took the
European Computer Driving Licence and a Teaching Certificate.

I'm doing the same although I have found the ECDL very basic and not
particularly useful - but it will satisfy those who require a bit of paper.

--
JanieB
   "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" [Old Ottoman proverb]

I am quite proud of the fact that I have no piece of paper nor any other
type of "certification" whatsoever. The strongest statements can be found in
what you do. :-)

--
MichKa

Michael Kaplan
(principal developer of the MSLU)
Trigeminal Software, Inc.  -- http://www.trigeminal.com/
the book -- http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

""Jane Boulton [Remove BRAINCELL to Reply]"" <Jane@braincell.dsl.co.uk>
wrote in message news:1001864852snz@braincell.dsl.co.uk...
> In article <1001575619.72889.1@eos.uk.clara.net>
>            fastrack1966@clara.co.uk "fast track" writes:
>
> > Thanks for advice, but here in the UK there is an increasing trend for
> > preferring staff with any kind of formal qualification in IT. My added
> > disadvantage is that I'm nearly 49 years old and twelve years in PC
Support
> > without a smart certificate is counting for less, but I guess ageism is
a
> > subject for another newsgroup?
>
> I'm 54 with 18 years experience in IT, including teaching at a university.
I
> am now losing out to people with very little experience but with a bit of
> paper.  One friend is now teaching IT at a local college and I know for a
> fact that she had never touched a computer until three years ago and until
> recently only used one for word-processing.  She went out and took the
> European Computer Driving Licence and a Teaching Certificate.
>
> I'm doing the same although I have found the ECDL very basic and not
> particularly useful - but it will satisfy those who require a bit of
paper.
>
> --
> JanieB
>    "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" [Old Ottoman
proverb]
>

former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com (Michael \(michka\)
Kaplan) wrote in <OK#M4zdSBHA.1648@cpimsnntpa03>: 

>I am quite proud of the fact that I have no piece of paper nor any
>other type of "certification" whatsoever. The strongest statements
>can be found in what you do. :-)

Yes, and organizations that will look at a certificate that can be
gotten by studying with no real-world experience and *not* be
bothered to look at years of real experience, well, I wouldn't want
to work for such companies, since such an organization is so badly
run that it's bound to be a bad place to work (if it even stays in
business). 

-- 
David W. Fenton                        http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net                http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc