🚀 go-pugleaf

Whatever you do don't use SuperNet - I'm having nothing but trouble with
them.

Claire Moore wrote:
> 
> I would really appreciate anyones thoughts on which provider would be able
> to offer a package to let approx 5 users browse the internet at one time, &
> 10 Email dial-up accounts.  This is all we would need.  Having spoken to the
> "biggies" in the market (eg. Pipex etc), they really are not aimed at the
> small business market.
> 
> Any recommendations for a company that would suit us would be greatly
> appreciated.

Demon allow as many machines as you like using NAT, and allow
unlimited email addresses. They would seem very sensible.

-- 
 _ 
(_) _| _ . _  _   Andrews & Arnold Ltd, Bracknell, Fax 0500 222258
( )(_|(  |(_|| )  ISDN & Orange   http://www.andrews-arnold.co.uk/

Claire Moore wrote:
> 
> I would really appreciate anyones thoughts on which provider would be able
> to offer a package to let approx 5 users browse the internet at one time, &
> 10 Email dial-up accounts.  This is all we would need.  Having spoken to the
> "biggies" in the market (eg. Pipex etc), they really are not aimed at the
> small business market.
> 
> Any recommendations for a company that would suit us would be greatly
> appreciated.

I would recommend getting a 128k ISDN and going through a local ISP,
national ISP's tend to be less responsive on average.  For a local guy,
getting you or losing you is a big deal, for a national outfit you're a
blip on their radar screen.  Some of the other posts describe how to
setup your network, everything can funnel through the one ISDN dial-up
account.  You should use Linux for your server.  Its free, highly
configuralbe, and can do all the server functions (email ftp http) and
act as a firewall.  Debian Linux is the easiest to set up and upgrade
and stuff.  Look at http://www.debian.org.

Try GlobalNet - www.globalnet.co.uk

GS

In article <34bacce5.386663004@news.demon.co.uk>,
Barry Schofield <bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:12:39 +0000, Adrian Kennard
><593027877@nospam.andrews-arnold.co.uk> wrote:
>>Claire Moore wrote:
>>> I would really appreciate anyones thoughts on which provider would be able
>>> to offer a package to let approx 5 users browse the internet at one time, &
>>> 10 Email dial-up accounts.  This is all we would need.  Having spoken to the
>>> "biggies" in the market (eg. Pipex etc), they really are not aimed at the
>>> small business market.
>>
>>Demon allow as many machines as you like using NAT, and allow
>>unlimited email addresses. They would seem very sensible.
>
> Does Demon actually allow this? I should keep this very quiet.
> Demon would like everyone who has more than one machine to go to
> their business tariff, and they will not assist in giving advice on
> this matter on the 10 pound connections.

Perhaps they mean 'more than one IP address'? That wouldn't be unreasonable.


>I thought it was more they had a problem stopping it? I should
>imagine, if to many take this option up they would stop NAT routing.

I'd like to know how they could stop you from using NAT on your end of the
connection. Aside from sniffing out the types and number of connections
from the single 'real' IP address on your LAN, it'd be difficult to even
detect that you're using NAT, and basically impossible to prevent.

Barry Schofield wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:12:39 +0000, Adrian Kennard
> <593027877@nospam.andrews-arnold.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>...
> >Demon allow as many machines as you like using NAT, and allow
> >unlimited email addresses. They would seem very sensible.
> >
> 
>  Does Demon actually allow this? I should keep this very quiet.

They do allow this, and specifically say so if you care to read their
documentation.

>  Demon would like everyone who has more than one machine to go to
> their business tariff, and they will not assist in giving advice on
> this matter on the 10 pound connections.

Wrong.

> I thought it was more they had a problem stopping it? I should
> imagine, if to many take this option up they would stop NAT routing.

The very first demon accounts were one machine only. Some years
ago a new AUP was produced. It has specific entries about a DU
account and use of multiple machines. It is carefully worded
to stop someone running an ISP from a DU account, but does
specifically allow many machines from the same organisation to
use the one account.

-- 
 _ 
(_) _| _ . _  _   Andrews & Arnold Ltd, Bracknell, Fax 0500 222258
( )(_|(  |(_|| )  ISDN & Orange   http://www.andrews-arnold.co.uk/

On Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:12:39 +0000, Adrian Kennard
<593027877@nospam.andrews-arnold.co.uk> wrote:

>Claire Moore wrote:
>> 
>> I would really appreciate anyones thoughts on which provider would be able
>> to offer a package to let approx 5 users browse the internet at one time, &
>> 10 Email dial-up accounts.  This is all we would need.  Having spoken to the
>> "biggies" in the market (eg. Pipex etc), they really are not aimed at the
>> small business market.
>> 
>> Any recommendations for a company that would suit us would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>
>Demon allow as many machines as you like using NAT, and allow
>unlimited email addresses. They would seem very sensible.
>

 Does Demon actually allow this? I should keep this very quiet.
 Demon would like everyone who has more than one machine to go to
their business tariff, and they will not assist in giving advice on
this matter on the 10 pound connections.

I thought it was more they had a problem stopping it? I should
imagine, if to many take this option up they would stop NAT routing.

Barry Schofield

Barry Schofield (bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk) wrote:

:  Does Demon actually allow this? I should keep this very quiet.
:  Demon would like everyone who has more than one machine to go to
: their business tariff, and they will not assist in giving advice on
: this matter on the 10 pound connections.

Oh dear, Barry is shooting from the hip again.
GoTo www.demon.net or ftp.demon.co.uk and read their AUP.

Basically you gets what you pays for.

A TAM account gets you an ordinary dialup ( POTS or ISDN ) account, plus 
a chance at their helpline.  this costs you �120 PA +vat

Add an extra �200 PA for your own domain name.
Note that so far there are no guarantees.

For �1200 PA, which is peanuts for most business users, you get a 'Network isdn'
account which gets you a router, a flock of IP addresses, a domain name,
and most of all a GRADE OF SERVICE AND SUPPORT. This means a separate set of
numbers, a separate helpdesk, space on a 'commercial' web server, and
separate 'preferred' routers.

For �7200 PA you get a permanent 64K business grade connection. 
IOW, less than the tea boy is costing for a permanent connection.

The sales staff make it VERY clear to you -- If the Internet is important
to your business take the business grade account - otherwise take your chances
with the 'ordinary users'.


-- 
To reply to newsgroup messages please remove the spamtrap from my address.
Email is not affected.                  Website: http://www.netix.org.uk/
C. Newport, The NetUnix Consultancy, Clevedon, North Somerset, UK.

Adrian Kennard (1284708908@nospam.andrews-arnold.co.uk) wrote:

: The very first demon accounts were one machine only. Some years
: ago a new AUP was produced.

I suppose it might be a good idea to ask Demon to give me a new contract,
OTOH, I doubt if they would try to enforce the differences.


-- 
To reply to newsgroup messages please remove the spamtrap from my address.
Email is not affected.                  Website: http://www.netix.org.uk/
C. Newport, The NetUnix Consultancy, Clevedon, North Somerset, UK.

In article <69h35f$1ar@linux.local>, "C. Newport"
<crn@nospam.netix.org.uk> writes
>For �7200 PA you get a permanent 64K business grade connection. 
>IOW, less than the tea boy is costing for a permanent connection.

The prices of permanent connections, including 64k ones, are all based
on your location (among other things), for instance, two quotes that we
have recently given, are totally different price wise, for the same
capacity line, but in different locations.

For a 2Mb permanent connection to Maidenhead has been quoted as �14k
p.a. approx (plus connection charges), and a 2Mb permanent connection to
London has been quoted as �7k p.a. approx (plus connection charges).
Please bear in mind, that these costs have been calculated for two
totally different situations, and if you are based in London, this does
not automatically mean the line rental for a 2Mb permanent connection
will cost you �7k p.a. . Also, none of these prices are guaranteed in
any way, and may change without notice.

Regards
Sebastian
-- 
Sebastian Kinnaird
Telecoms Department

On 14 Jan 1998 01:07:59 -0000, crn@nospam.netix.org.uk (C. Newport)
wrote:

>Barry Schofield (bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
>:  Does Demon actually allow this? I should keep this very quiet.
>:  Demon would like everyone who has more than one machine to go to
>: their business tariff, and they will not assist in giving advice on
>: this matter on the 10 pound connections.
>
>Oh dear, Barry is shooting from the hip again.
>GoTo www.demon.net or ftp.demon.co.uk and read their AUP.
>
CN> Basically you gets what you pays for.

No, It is experience , when you actually ask them whether particular
routers can connect. Perhaps you should send a copy to Demon, they do
not appear to practise what they preach and refer you to corporate
sales, who try to sell you a direct connection, and state that NAT
is not available on the basic connection.

I am glad to know that my Ascend P50 is now tolerated on a single
users account and I can have any number of users on my network still
using a 10 pound dial up account. Odd that nobody will tell you this
at Demon? 

Barry Schofield


>

For ISDN connectors, cables, terminators check out 
Lion's web site at www.lioncom.co.uk. Yes you can have
award winning TA modem phones, as well as having BABT 
approved equipment and inexpensive active TA modem's.

In article <34ca07b3.260657947@news.demon.co.uk>
           bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk "Barry Schofield" writes:

> I am glad to know that my Ascend P50 is now tolerated on a single
> users account and I can have any number of users on my network still
> using a 10 pound dial up account. Odd that nobody will tell you this
> at Demon? 

You obviously don't read the correct demon.* newsgroups: there have been
manifold postings by various Demon staffers in places like demon.service
and demon.ip.support to clarify the fact that the restriction has been
lifted.

Strike that: we all know you never READ anything (or at least, ALWAYS
fail to comprehend it)!

-- 
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                         bhk@dsl.co.uk
        "The fundamental design flaws [of the products of the Micros^WSirius
        Cybernetics Corporation]  are completely hidden by their superficial
        design flaws."  SLATFATF 1983 --- wasn't Douglas Adams prescient?:-)

C. Newport wrote:
> 
> Adrian Kennard (1284708908@nospam.andrews-arnold.co.uk) wrote:
> 
> : The very first demon accounts were one machine only. Some years
> : ago a new AUP was produced.
> 
> I suppose it might be a good idea to ask Demon to give me a new contract,
> OTOH, I doubt if they would try to enforce the differences.
> 

It does not need a new contract - they were never formal.

-- 
 _ 
(_) _| _ . _  _   Andrews & Arnold Ltd, Bracknell, Berks, RG42 1ZZ
( )(_|(  |(_|| )  ISDN Equipment and advice          http://aa.nu/

Barry Schofield wrote:
>...
> I am glad to know that my Ascend P50 is now tolerated on a single
> users account and I can have any number of users on my network still
> using a 10 pound dial up account. Odd that nobody will tell you this
> at Demon?

It was all on demon announce when the new AUPs came in.
Read...

-- 
 _ 
(_) _| _ . _  _   Andrews & Arnold Ltd, Bracknell, Berks, RG42 1ZZ
( )(_|(  |(_|| )  ISDN Equipment and advice          http://aa.nu/

On Sat, 24 Jan 98 21:42:11 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
wrote:

>In article <34ca07b3.260657947@news.demon.co.uk>
>           bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk "Barry Schofield" writes:
>
BS>> I am glad to know that my Ascend P50 is now tolerated on a single
users account and I can have any number of users on my network still
 using a 10 pound dial up account. Odd that nobody will tell you this
at Demon? 
>
BHK>You obviously don't read the correct demon.* newsgroups: there
have been manifold postings by various Demon staffers in places like
demon.service and demon.ip.support to clarify the fact that the
restriction has been lifted.
>
BHK>Strike that: we all know you never READ anything (or at least,
ALWAYS fail to comprehend it)!

Well show me then where on this newsgroup these manifold postings are.

I suppose you expect everyone in this newsgroup to trawl other groups
to find the answer to the questions that are within the remit of this
newsgroup.

I notice you could not attach any one of these manifold postings to
your posting for the convenience of all. You appear to want to get
some other point across rather than add veracity to your statement.

Barry Schofield




>

For ISDN connectors, cables, terminators check out 
Lion's web site at www.lioncom.co.uk. Yes you can have
award winning TA modem phones, as well as having BABT 
approved equipment and inexpensive active TA modem's.

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:03:32 GMT, bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk (Barry
Schofield) wrote:

>I suppose you expect everyone in this newsgroup to trawl other groups
>to find the answer to the questions that are within the remit of this
>newsgroup.
>
It's not this newsgroup. It's *these* newsgroups. Most of which have
nothing at all to do with Demon's services. Follow-ups set
accordingly.


Jim.

In article <34cb3823.338605985@news.demon.co.uk>
           bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk "Barry Schofield" writes:

> Well show me then where on this newsgroup these manifold postings are.

As has been said by someone else (and forgotten about by me), the change
to the AUP had an *official* announcement in demon.announce.  As a Demon
customer, it behoves you to either take this group, or to have it sent by
e-mail (personally, I do both: then I don't miss a service announcement
if somethings gone wrong with one method of delivery).  Actually, the
change wasn't clearly flagged as such (the new AUP simply failed to
repeat the old provision about not connecting a network), so
clarification was sought in the group to which follow-ups were set, i.e.
demon.service.  Various people responded, including Clive, Peter
(Galbavy), and Malcolm.

> I suppose you expect everyone in this newsgroup to trawl other groups
> to find the answer to the questions that are within the remit of this
> newsgroup.
> 
> I notice you could not attach any one of these manifold postings to
> your posting for the convenience of all. You appear to want to get
> some other point across rather than add veracity to your statement.

Unfortunately, after this lapse of time (we're talking about this time
last year) they have long expired both from my local newsspool and
from Demon's servers.  However, if you have time to "surf the net" (a
pointless waste of resources and my phone, IMHO) then you'll find them
archived at Dejanews, as I'm sure you'd realize.

The original article in demon.announce had
           Message-Id: <9701201746.AA19558@thokk.demon.co.uk>
look this up at Dejanews and follow the thread which it started.

-- 
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                         bhk@dsl.co.uk
        "The fundamental design flaws [of the products of the Micros^WSirius
        Cybernetics Corporation]  are completely hidden by their superficial
        design flaws."  SLATFATF 1983 --- wasn't Douglas Adams prescient?:-)

David Richards wrote in message <69f3g6$mfh$1@gail.ripco.com>...
>In article <34bacce5.386663004@news.demon.co.uk>,
>Barry Schofield <bscho@lioncom.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>On Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:12:39 +0000, Adrian Kennard
>><593027877@nospam.andrews-arnold.co.uk> wrote:
>>>Claire Moore wrote:
>>>> I would really appreciate anyones thoughts on which provider would be
able
>>>> to offer a package to let approx 5 users browse the internet at one
time, &
>>>> 10 Email dial-up accounts.  This is all we would need.  Having spoken
to the
>>>> "biggies" in the market (eg. Pipex etc), they really are not aimed at
the
>>>> small business market.
>>>
>>>Demon allow as many machines as you like using NAT, and allow
>>>unlimited email addresses. They would seem very sensible.


This is true.

>>
>> Does Demon actually allow this? I should keep this very quiet.
>> Demon would like everyone who has more than one machine to go to
>> their business tariff, and they will not assist in giving advice on
>> this matter on the 10 pound connections.
>
>Perhaps they mean 'more than one IP address'? That wouldn't be
unreasonable.
>
>
>>I thought it was more they had a problem stopping it? I should
>>imagine, if to many take this option up they would stop NAT routing.
>
>I'd like to know how they could stop you from using NAT on your end of the
>connection. Aside from sniffing out the types and number of connections
>from the single 'real' IP address on your LAN, it'd be difficult to even
>detect that you're using NAT, and basically impossible to prevent.
>

And also they don't actually care.  All they care about is the amount of
bandwidth you consume.  It's impossible to use more bandwidth than
demon's dialup ports provide and you've paid for that.

They don't mind you doing it, it's just that there's a lot of stupid people
out there and NAT is a complex subject.  They don't want disproportionate
amounts of support staff time taken up by a small percentage of people
who are trying to do something they don't understand.