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3 total messages Started by Brian Willoughby Fri, 29 Sep 1989 22:07
Real-time Fourier Transform
#328
Author: Brian Willoughby
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1989 22:07
30 lines
1935 bytes
In article <3441@abaa.UUCP> esker@abaa.UUCP (Lawrence Esker) writes:
[...]
>Yes, the sliding-FFT looked like a great design invention until you studied
>it more closely and realized it was simply the original Discrete Fourier
>Transform (DFT) restated in a different way.  Since the FFT is an algorithmic
>shortcut to the DFT, it made me chuckle to see the DFT used to perform the
>FFT, albeit under a new name of sliding-FFT.

You never stated whether you thought the DFT could be done in real time.
The "sliding-FFT" (whatever you wish to call it) seemed simple enough (in
terms of how many math computations per sample) for converting real-time
audio into the frequency domain.  But it does appear that computing an
additional inverse FT under the same time constraints would not be
possible.

Its been a while since I studied this in college, anyone care to describe
the DFT vs. FFT in layman's terms, or point to a text which does?  I seem
to remember that the inverse FT is basically the same operation as the FT
from time- to frequency-domain...

One use for real-time FT would be a digital spectrum analyser with say
256 points instead of the usual 10 band versions available with analog
units.  Gotta have some blinky light algorithms for my DSP project board
to execute :-)

Brian Willoughby
UUCP:           ...!{tikal, sun, uunet, elwood}!microsoft!brianw
InterNet:       microsoft!brianw@uunet.UU.NET
  or:           microsoft!brianw@Sun.COM
Bitnet          brianw@microsoft.UUCP
Re: Real-time Fourier Transform
#346
Author: Rob Carriere
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1989 01:34
17 lines
1486 bytes
In article <7899@microsoft.UUCP> brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby)
writes: 
>Its been a while since I studied this in college, anyone care to describe
>the DFT vs. FFT in layman's terms, or point to a text which does?  I seem
>to remember that the inverse FT is basically the same operation as the FT
>from time- to frequency-domain...

1) Inverse DFT differs from DFT by the sign of the exponent and (if you're
   not a mathematician) a factor of 1/N (assuming N data points) 
2) FFT is simply a fast method for computing a bunch of DFT values.  With
   DFT, you could compute the spectral value at any frequency you care, but it
   takes O(N) operations for each frequency.  FFT gives you the spectral
   values at N equidistant frequencies for a total cost of O(N log N) (N has
   to be a power of 2), significantly cheaper than the O(N^2) sweat the regular
   DFT works up.  

SR
Re: Real-time Fourier Transform
#446
Author: Hubert Matthews
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 1989 16:47
61 lines
3526 bytes
In article <7899@microsoft.UUCP> brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) writes:
>Its been a while since I studied this in college, anyone care to describe
>the DFT vs. FFT in layman's terms, or point to a text which does?  I seem
>to remember that the inverse FT is basically the same operation as the FT
>from time- to frequency-domain...

OK, here goes.  First thing to do is to read Bracewell's book on the
Fourier Transform.  Then you might understand my rather poor
explanations.  It's a lot easier to explain if you can draw nice
squiggly lines and diagrams, so bear with me please.

Regarding the DFT and the FFT: they are one and the same thing.  The
discrete Fourier transform (DFT) is a truncated and sampled version of
the continuous Fourier transform (FT) and is a computable
approximation of the FT.  The Fast Fourier Transform is merely a
well-known, computationally efficient way to calculate the DFT if the
number of samples is a power of 2.

The DFT is characterised by two quantities: the number of points, N,
and the sampling time, T.

To derive the DFT from the FT requires three steps: sampling of the
continuous time series, truncation of the now sampled series and
making a continuous, periodic set of samples by placing the N sampled
points end-to-end.  This is achieved by multiplying by a comb function
with separation T to sample the points, then by multiplying by a
top-hat or pill-box gating pulse of length NT, and finally by
convolving with a comb function with separation NT to form a signal
with period NT.

What does this look like in the frequency domain?  The sampling stage
(mult by comb(T)) causes the frequency spectrum to be replicated in
frequency every 1/T (this explains why aliasing occurs if the freq
spec extends beyond 1/2T), the truncation stage "smears" the data by
convolving them with a sinc(1/NT) function, and the time-domain
replication is what causes the freq spec to be periodic and *not* the
sampling stage (an important and oft misunderstood point).

Thus, the DFT is a derivative of the continuous FT, and this
three-stage process can be used to predict and analyse the effect on
the DFT or the time-domain of most operations.  Just remember that T
and 1/T, and that multiplication and convolution are transform pairs,
and you won't go far wrong.

As for the connection between the forward- and the backward-FTs, there
is only a minus sign in the exponent of the kernel that changes.
Whether you define the forward-version to be exp(-2*pi*j*f*t) or
exp(2*pi*j*f*t) is just a matter of choice, but the backward-version
must be of the opposite sign.

>Brian Willoughby
>UUCP:           ...!{tikal, sun, uunet, elwood}!microsoft!brianw
>InterNet:       microsoft!brianw@uunet.UU.NET
>  or:           microsoft!brianw@Sun.COM
>Bitnet          brianw@microsoft.UUCP


-- 
Hubert Matthews      ...helping make the world a quote-free zone...

hjm@cernvax.cern.ch   hjm@vxomeg.decnet.cern.ch    ...!mcvax!cernvax!hjm
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