🚀 go-pugleaf

david@smos.com (David Tornheim) writes:

>  The frequent use of the CNTL key combined
>with another key is the motion that is most painful. (e.g. I use C-b and
>C-f a lot to move around within a line, since commands like M-F and
>M-B actually take longer).

I consider the control key a pest too; all the other modifications are
prefix keys, and I don't like the exception.  So I have defined a
prefix key equivalent to control.  I don't use it for simple things
like forward-char and backward-char, tho; I have them bound to special
keys, so they are one stroke.
-- 
        Joe Fineman             jcf@world.std.com
        239 Clinton Road        (617) 731-9190
        Brookline, MA 02146

david@smos.com (David Tornheim) writes:

>I have used EMACS for about 8 years now and have sworn by it, since
>I can use it on almost every machine.  Unfortunately, I've noticed that
>my hands hurt quite a bit at the end of the day, _especially_ when
>I edit files with EMACS.                                           

>                       Is anyone else in the same boat? Does anyone
>have other suggestions?

>-David Tornheim

Well.  The problem is very common with hurting hands.  Everyone with
such pain, should consider reading the FAQ on Typing injuries (news
group "news.answers", as I cannot throw a ftp-site of my head).

The problem is basically *not* cured by switching editors but more by
changing your way of work with the console.  Just a thing as pushing the
keyboard back, and resting your underarms on the table may do wonders --
it did to me!

Regards,
-- 
Thorbj{\o}rn Andersen 
ravn@imada.ou.dk      
 
                       

In article <1993Jan26.002855.29015@smos.com> david@smos.com (David Tornheim) writes:

   I have used EMACS for about 8 years now and have sworn by it, since
   I can use it on almost every machine.  Unfortunately, I've noticed that
   my hands hurt quite a bit at the end of the day, _especially_ when
   I edit files with EMACS.  The frequent use of the CNTL key combined
   with another key is the motion that is most painful. (e.g. I use C-b and
   C-f a lot to move around within a line, since commands like M-F and
   M-B actually take longer).  Because of this, I'm seriously considering
   switching over to the evil VI editor to save my hands from permanent
   damage (no kidding!).  Is anyone else in the same boat? Does anyone
   have other suggestions?

Your hands probably hurt for reasons other then using EMACS.  When you type,
do you rest your wrists on a table, desk, or wristpad?  You shouldn't.  Are
your wrists bend with respect to your lower arms?  They shouldn't be.  Both of
these reasons are more likely to damage your hand muscles, and cause soreness.
The wristpads that are so popular should NOT be used while typing, this is a
myth.  They should only be used to rest your wrists when NOT typing.

I think there is one reason why you should stay with EMACS, it is
customizable, therefore it should take less effort to do anything then it does
in VI.  Is your control key below the left shift next to the spacebar?  If so,
switch it with your Caps Lock key.  I have both caps lock and control bound to
control.  I do not know how to do it within emacs, because I have it globally
bound in my xsession using xmodmap:

        # Caps lock should work like control.
        #
        xmodmap -e "clear Lock"
        xmodmap -e "add Control = Caps_Lock"

We've just had extensive ergonomic training, at believe it or not, it does
make a difference how you sit and how you type.  If your computer time is work
related, then your company should order furniture and provide training. Lots
of tools can be blamed also, but you can customize EMACS to make it not one of
them.

I tried not to make this a public service announcement, but I hope that some
people can use this info that was given to me not too long ago...

--Jeff
--
--Jeff Abramson
  Microprocessor Division 6                    jabram@ichips.intel.com
  Intel Corporation, Hillsboro OR                       (503) 696-4784

If you're used to vi's keystrokes, try vip mode (version 4.3 is MUCH better
than version 3.5) or evi mode.

Bill Clark
clarkw@utdallas.edu

david@smos.com (David Tornheim) writes:
: I have used EMACS for about 8 years now and have sworn by it, since
: I can use it on almost every machine.  Unfortunately, I've noticed that
: my hands hurt quite a bit at the end of the day, _especially_ when
: I edit files with EMACS.  The frequent use of the CNTL key combined
: with another key is the motion that is most painful. (e.g. I use C-b and
: C-f a lot to move around within a line, since commands like M-F and
: M-B actually take longer).  Because of this, I'm seriously considering
: switching over to the evil VI editor to save my hands from permanent
: damage (no kidding!).  Is anyone else in the same boat? Does anyone
: have other suggestions?
: 
: -David Tornheim


     Well, I don't know if anyone else has ever heard of this, but
there are some kind of gloves made just for this type of problem.
They are made from spandex-like material and look like weightlifting
gloves (i.e., they have the finger ends cut off)  Now, I've only seen
them once and have absolutely no idea if they work or not, but since
you are having problems you may want to ask around.  In fact, if you'd
like, I can try and track down the person who I saw had them.

-- 
Jeff Aitken                     |     
jaitken@csugrad.cs.vt.edu       |     Everyone is allowed to be stupid.
DEC User's Group Vice President |     It's  just that some people abuse
Va. Tech Computer Science Dept. |     the priviledge.

In article <1993Jan26.002855.29015@smos.com> david@smos.com (David Tornheim) writes:
>I have used EMACS for about 8 years now and have sworn by it, since
>I can use it on almost every machine.  Unfortunately, I've noticed that
>my hands hurt quite a bit at the end of the day, _especially_ when
>I edit files with EMACS.  The frequent use of the CNTL key combined
>with another key is the motion that is most painful. (e.g. I use C-b and
>C-f a lot to move around within a line, since commands like M-F and
>M-B actually take longer).  Because of this, I'm seriously considering
>switching over to the evil VI editor to save my hands from permanent
>damage (no kidding!).  Is anyone else in the same boat? Does anyone
>have other suggestions?

Why not just configure emacs to use your cursor keys? This should save
most of the wear & tear.

Fletch

In article <1993Jan26.002855.29015@smos.com> david@smos.com (David Tornheim) writes:
>I have used EMACS for about 8 years now and have sworn by it, since
>I can use it on almost every machine.  Unfortunately, I've noticed that
>my hands hurt quite a bit at the end of the day, _especially_ when
>I edit files with EMACS.  The frequent use of the CNTL key combined
>with another key is the motion that is most painful. (e.g. I use C-b and
>C-f a lot to move around within a line, since commands like M-F and
>M-B actually take longer).

As other people have pointed out, you should check out sci.med.occupational,
and the associated FAQ for that group.  I'd suggest that you try the
following things:

    1)  Seek medical attention.  You should be able to file a claim
        under a Worker's Compensation program, since your problem is
        probably work related.  If left untreated, your hand and
        wrist problems can develop into severe tendonitis or even
        Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.  The earlier you have it checked out,
        the better.  [Worker's Comp might not be an option if there
        are other non-work things that contribute to the problem, such
        as extensive guitar playing, and other such things.  However,
        you should try.]

    2)  Get information on how to setup your work environment so that
        your desk and keyboard are at the proper height, and your
        posture is correct.  This can go a *long* way toward solving
        your problem.  You might also try to work with your HR
        department to get adequate in-house education on ergonomic
        issues for keyboard-intensive environments.  Your employer
        has a responsibility to provide you with a safe working
        environment, and a lot of large companies have people devoted
        to ergonomic issues.

    3)  Avoid "improper" wrist motions.  With an HP keyboard, using
        emacs, I frequently use function keys just to the right of
        the normal keyboard keys.  My right hand had a much more
        serious problem than my left hand.  What I found was that
        I was rotating my hand at the wrist to access these keys,
        which is a definite no-no.  I've been retraining myself
        so that I instead move my entire arm over to that location,
        via a combination of small shoulder and elbow movement.
        This has helped my condition remarkably.  Your problem
        with the control key might be solvable with similar
        changes.  Move common functions to single function keys
        (especially arrow keys for motion), and learn how to
        access those keys without bending your wrists.  It takes
        a fair amount of work to break the old habits, but it
        is certainly worth it.  (In my case, I wore a wrist brace
        for a couple of weeks when the problem was most severe,
        and I learned very quickly just what movements I was making
        that moved the wrist.  I still haven't completely retrained
        myself, but I'd say I do the right thing with the function
        keys about 80% of the time.)

    4)  If you use a wristpad, do *not* use it for weight support
        while typing.  That was another thing I was doing wrong.
        (In fact, there is a worn and dirty indentation in my pad
        where my right hand rested while twisting the wrist to 
        access the function keys.)  Rather, if one is used, it
        should only be used as a "guide" to keep the hand and
        wrists at an even height, and allow smooth motion as you
        move your hands from side to side.  The temptation to use
        one incorrectly might be too great, and perhaps you shouldn't
        use one at all.

I don't think you have to switch away from emacs.  Just use it more
sensibly, and learn good typing habits.  And do it soon --- the less
severe your problem is, the easier it is to correct.

-- 
Michael Bryan     michael@resonex.com

In article <JABRAM.93Jan26071913@pdx025.intel.com> jabram@pdx025.intel.com (Jeff Abramson) writes:
>
>The wristpads that are so popular should NOT be used while typing, this is a
>myth.  They should only be used to rest your wrists when NOT typing.

Agreed, with the modification that their use while typing should be limited
to a "feelie" guide, to help you keep your wrists and hands properly
positioned while moving side-to-side on the keyboard. As Jeff says, however,
under no circumstances should you support any weight on them while typing.
If you have worn spots on your wristpad, you are probably using it
incorrectly.

-- 
Michael Bryan     michael@resonex.com

Reportedly, Peter G. Neumann (moderator of comp.risks) has a modified
keyboard which has pedals for the shift, control, and alt keys.  I'd
guess it does wonders for that sore-little-finger syndrome...
-- 
	Geoff Kuenning	geoff@maui.cs.ucla.edu	geoff@ITcorp.com