🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <44pvj8$pba@prometheus.algonet.se>, Danne <daba@algonet.se> writes:
> Is there a program that does the opposite of what Star Commander (and
> similar) can do? I.e. instead of reading/writing to a 1541, from the PC,
> why not use the same cable for connecting the C64 with the PC?
> 
> Then this procedure of writing to a disk and THEN load it with the C64
> becomes obsolete...
> 
> First of all... is this possible? (everything's possible, but is it
> EASY to do?)

I was kinda wondering about a similar solution - I'd like hook up a
C64 to my Amiga in a serial or simple network system and use one of
the Amiga-floppydrives as a C64-unit.  I want to have features like
directory trees and fileprotectionmasks (of which the latter is of
completely no use of course, but it'd be nice).  Is there any s/w
available for this? (I'd hate to have to write an own filesystem!)

Thanks!
/ali (Anders Lindgren)
  

Danne (daba@algonet.se) wrote:
: Is there a program that does the opposite of what Star Commander (and
: similar) can do? I.e. instead of reading/writing to a 1541, from the PC,
: why not use the same cable for connecting the C64 with the PC?

: First of all... is this possible? (everything's possible, but is it
: EASY to do?)
Possible: Yes! but (1) a c64 loader is required and (2) it would not work 
on full-disk games that use "direct" disk access.  The main uselessness I 
see is that most of the time, the games that don't work on the emulators are 
multi-disk or many-file game.  Too bad.

Anders Lindgren (dat94ali@ludat.lth.se) wrote:
: In article <44pvj8$pba@prometheus.algonet.se>, Danne <daba@algonet.se> writes:
: > Is there a program that does the opposite of what Star Commander (and
: > similar) can do? I.e. instead of reading/writing to a 1541, from the PC,
: > why not use the same cable for connecting the C64 with the PC?

: I was kinda wondering about a similar solution - I'd like hook up a
: C64 to my Amiga in a serial or simple network system and use one of
: the Amiga-floppydrives as a C64-unit.  I want to have features like
: directory trees and fileprotectionmasks (of which the latter is of
: completely no use of course, but it'd be nice).  Is there any s/w
: available for this? (I'd hate to have to write an own filesystem!)

   Yeah, they have that for the Amiga, it's somewhere on the AmiNet and 
there is also one for the PC, but I don't know where to get it.

   In fact, I've thought about selling a cheap PC and HD for just this 
purpose because it's be cheaper (and more flexible, actually getting a 
PC) than the CMD HD....  (not that it'd be hard!  I was thinking of a 486/33)
But I don't have the rights to the software....

_______________________________________________________________________________
  -- mcalavy@pioneer.nevada.edu -- all possible disclaimers hereby claimed --

Danne <daba@algonet.se> wrote:

>Is there a program that does the opposite of what Star Commander (and
>similar) can do? I.e. instead of reading/writing to a 1541, from the PC,
>why not use the same cable for connecting the C64 with the PC?

Don't know!

>First of all... is this possible? (everything's possible, but is it
>EASY to do?)

Doing one to work with the DOS commands would be possible. I have such 
programs on the Amiga, that can deal with the basic set such as load and 
save. Mind that this is normal speed and! It is of couse possible on a PC 
as well if it has bidirectonal parallellport! (All of them don't - Again 
PC hardware sucks!)

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In <44qipb$b60@ccnet3.ccnet.com> msalomon@ccnet.com writes:

>Danne (daba@algonet.se) wrote:
>: Is there a program that does the opposite of what Star Commander (and
>: similar) can do? I.e. instead of reading/writing to a 1541, from the PC,
>: why not use the same cable for connecting the C64 with the PC?
>
>: First of all... is this possible? (everything's possible, but is it
>: EASY to do?)
>Possible: Yes! but (1) a c64 loader is required and (2) it would not work 
>on full-disk games that use "direct" disk access.  The main uselessness I 
>see is that most of the time, the games that don't work on the emulators are 
>multi-disk or many-file game.  Too bad.

I think it should be possible to let the PC emulate a real 1541. On the PC,
you would pick a disk image (.d64) file to use, and the 64 would be able to
access that image as though it were a real floppy in a real 1541. I see no
reason why direct-access and even fastloaders couldn't be made to work.
Hell, why not have the PC emulate *multiple* drives while you're at it?
All of this is technically possible. Thing is, it hasn't been done yet...

 - Thomas.
--
======================================== Thomas Okken (tokken@cs.ruu.nl) ====

Aha ! What about c64s and FULL fast loader support!

In article <44r122$7df@krant.cs.ruu.nl>, tokken@cs.ruu.nl (Thomas Okken) writes:
|> In <44qipb$b60@ccnet3.ccnet.com> msalomon@ccnet.com writes:
|> 
|> >Danne (daba@algonet.se) wrote:
|> >: Is there a program that does the opposite of what Star Commander (and
|> >: similar) can do? I.e. instead of reading/writing to a 1541, from the PC,
|> >: why not use the same cable for connecting the C64 with the PC?
|> >
|> >: First of all... is this possible? (everything's possible, but is it
|> >: EASY to do?)
|> >Possible: Yes! but (1) a c64 loader is required and (2) it would not work 
|> >on full-disk games that use "direct" disk access.  The main uselessness I 
|> >see is that most of the time, the games that don't work on the emulators are 
|> >multi-disk or many-file game.  Too bad.
|> 
|> I think it should be possible to let the PC emulate a real 1541. On the PC,
|> you would pick a disk image (.d64) file to use, and the 64 would be able to
|> access that image as though it were a real floppy in a real 1541. I see no
|> reason why direct-access and even fastloaders couldn't be made to work.
|> Hell, why not have the PC emulate *multiple* drives while you're at it?
|> All of this is technically possible. Thing is, it hasn't been done yet...

It has been done for the Amiga though....  No fastload support yet.

|>  - Thomas.
|> --
|> ======================================== Thomas Okken (tokken@cs.ruu.nl) ====

>>>>> "Anders" == Anders Lindgren <dat94ali@ludat.lth.se> writes:

Anders> I was kinda wondering about a similar solution - I'd like hook
Anders> up a C64 to my Amiga in a serial or simple network system and
Anders> use one of the Amiga-floppydrives as a C64-unit. I want to
Anders> have features like directory trees and fileprotectionmasks (of
Anders> which the latter is of completely no use of course, but it'd
Anders> be nice). Is there any s/w available for this?

Over5 v0.463, aminet:misc/emu/Over5_0.463.lha
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tokken@cs.ruu.nl (Thomas Okken) wrote:

[..deleted...]
>I think it should be possible to let the PC emulate a real 1541. On the PC,
>you would pick a disk image (.d64) file to use, and the 64 would be able to
>access that image as though it were a real floppy in a real 1541. I see no
>reason why direct-access and even fastloaders couldn't be made to work.
>Hell, why not have the PC emulate *multiple* drives while you're at it?
>All of this is technically possible. Thing is, it hasn't been done yet...

Thanks! You seemed to be the only one really understanding my somewhat
confusing question. The thing is, if there was a solution like this,
there would be less required hardware! One C64, one cable and that's it!
(...excluding the PC.) Someone looked further into this? Perhaps some
half-done project laying around??

..perhaps even ESCOM would consider it as a cheap C64 mass-storage
solution for the re-release of it in China?

//D

In article <44slm6$dic@prometheus.algonet.se>, Danne  <daba@algonet.se> wrote:
>tokken@cs.ruu.nl (Thomas Okken) wrote:
>
>[..deleted...]
>>I think it should be possible to let the PC emulate a real 1541. On the PC,
>>you would pick a disk image (.d64) file to use, and the 64 would be able to
>>access that image as though it were a real floppy in a real 1541. I see no
>>reason why direct-access and even fastloaders couldn't be made to work.
>>Hell, why not have the PC emulate *multiple* drives while you're at it?
>>All of this is technically possible. Thing is, it hasn't been done yet...
>
>Thanks! You seemed to be the only one really understanding my somewhat
>confusing question. The thing is, if there was a solution like this,
>there would be less required hardware! One C64, one cable and that's it!
>(...excluding the PC.) Someone looked further into this? Perhaps some
>half-done project laying around??

I had this exact idea a couple years ago when the first emulators came out.
Using the real 64 would be much more compatible than the emulators,
and the PC should be able to handle even full GCR, etc. emulation fast enough
for the Commodore (much easier than handling sound, sprites, etc. on the
emulator such that it takes >=P590 to run at 1x C64 speed for most things).
At that point, I made a PC parallel to C64 serial cable and set out to 
make it so.  I never got the timings to work correctly, so the only function
I could reliably handle was the reset line :-).  I suppose I shouldn't have
been a wimp and messed with Borland C and instead should have gone pure
assembly.  Anyway, I got tied up in classes and haven't done anything since.
My code was nothing to build off of.  However, I do have confidence that
such a scheme would work, and if someone else has already gotten a 
start on such a project, I would be interested in it and possibly working
on features for it.


Farewell-


Aaron

Thomas Okken (tokken@cs.ruu.nl) wrote:
: I think it should be possible to let the PC emulate a real 1541. On the PC,
: you would pick a disk image (.d64) file to use, and the 64 would be able to
: access that image as though it were a real floppy in a real 1541. I see no
: reason why direct-access and even fastloaders couldn't be made to work.
: Hell, why not have the PC emulate *multiple* drives while you're at it?
: All of this is technically possible. Thing is, it hasn't been done yet...
Actually, on second thought, yeah it should work just fine.  All the 1541 
is is a serial device, so if a c64 emulator can emulate it, it should be 
able to use the same method to send it to an actual c64 serial port.  
Let's beg Miha to put THAT in a new version of C64S!  I would assume that 
if you know how to program a c64 emu, and know how to access c64 serial, 
it should be pretty darn easy!  (of course I'd have no clue...)

|> Let's beg Miha to put THAT in a new version of C64S!  I would assume that 
|> if you know how to program a c64 emu, and know how to access c64 serial...

It should be somewhat easier to do that then to program an c64 emulator.

But perhaps it would be better to have a seperate executable than to include
it into an emulator.

And it should work *without* any s/w on the c64. (*with* s/w on c64 you can
use 64-net which does this work properly.)
So the PC really looks like a c64-drive.

*please* don't wait for *perfect* solutions to publish.
For the first version it should be sufficient to understand:

LOAD "foo",8
SAVE "....",8
LOAD "$",8
perhaps even without 1,8,15 (deleting...)

(i would pay $10 for that piece of s/w and i think many would do so too!)

An old PC, with or plus an old hard disc 

-> 10 - 50 $ -> 10 Mb of diskspace !!!!!

Please don't let this thread end w/o some announcement

Thanks in advance

     hoping

           Matthias Maisenbacher (mamaisen@si.bosch.de)

I just found a program on aminet under /misc/emu called emul_1541.lha that
is supposed to make the amiga behave as a c64 drive... I am just about to 
try it out.

Dan

I *WAS* working on such a project, but it has been on a back burner...
but it wouldn't emulate a 1541... just act like a big drive :)

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mamaisen@si0849.si.bosch.de (Matthias Maisenbacher) wrote:
[..deleted..]
>And it should work *without* any s/w on the c64. (*with* s/w on c64 you can
>use 64-net which does this work properly.)
>So the PC really looks like a c64-drive.

This must be a requirement!

>*please* don't wait for *perfect* solutions to publish.
>For the first version it should be sufficient to understand:
>
>LOAD "foo",8
>SAVE "....",8
>LOAD "$",8
>perhaps even without 1,8,15 (deleting...)

You're certainly right! Any solution is better than no one at all.

>(i would pay $10 for that piece of s/w and i think many would do so too!)
[..deleted..]

_I_ certainly would!! Since no emulator -today- works 100%, it's not
the same! (Even though C64S is close...)

If there's any source code available in C or in C & ASM dealing with
1541 emulation and timings, I could have a look at it. I do have some
spare time every now and then.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be possible to use the X1541
cable between the C64 and the PC? (Better dig up some old tech
manuals...)

//D

In article <450jav$p5i@prometheus.algonet.se>, Danne  <daba@algonet.se> wrote:

....

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be possible to use the X1541
>cable between the C64 and the PC? (Better dig up some old tech
>manuals...)

Certainly.  That's what I tried using when I wrote my '1541 reset line only'
emulator.


Farewell-


Aaron

msalomon@ccnet.com wrote:
: Danne (daba@algonet.se) wrote:
: : Is there a program that does the opposite of what Star Commander (and
: : similar) can do? I.e. instead of reading/writing to a 1541, from the PC,
: : why not use the same cable for connecting the C64 with the PC?
: 
: : First of all... is this possible? (everything's possible, but is it
: : EASY to do?)
: Possible: Yes! but (1) a c64 loader is required and (2) it would not work 
: on full-disk games that use "direct" disk access.  The main uselessness I 
: see is that most of the time, the games that don't work on the emulators are 
: multi-disk or many-file game.  Too bad.
The multi disc games work on the registered c64s, just change images on 
the fly, same could be done with a disc emulator.  Ever heard of SIO2PC 
for the Atari 8-bit people.  They've had this cable for 3 years now.

Nice having 16 meg virtual Atari hard drives on my PC, hooked through a 
cable that the Atari can read, wish I had something like an emulated CMD 
drive for the c64.

But now having upgraded to a DX4-100, c64s runs 100% in all categories now/