Article View: comp.fonts
Article #2545Re: Umlaute [was: naive (...question about uncial...) ]
From: Thomas M. Breuel
Date: Tue, 21 May 1991 08:43
Date: Tue, 21 May 1991 08:43
41 lines
2960 bytes
2960 bytes
In article <1991May20.190249.12782@leland.Stanford.EDU> bergmann@leland.Stanford.EDU (Bergmann) writes: In article <TMB.91May20125338@volterra.ai.mit.edu> tmb@ai.mit.edu (Thomas M. Breuel) writes: >To add to the confusion, the official substitute for writing 'sz' when >the special character is not available is 'ss'. As far as I can tell, >this was a really bad decision, since 'ss' carries with it the idea >that the preceding vowel is short, whereas 'sz' indicates that the >preceding vowel is normal or long; there is no good reason not to >write the 'sz' letter as 'sz' when the letter is not available. Hoho -- strong words! I'll give you one reason which seems good enough to me: the German "z" is pronounced "ts," so I, for one, read "dasts" when I see "dasz." (It's even worse with words that are less common, e.g. "saszen.") * German, like most other languages, uses two- and three letter combinations to express other sounds. It presumably doesn't bother you that 'c' is pronounced 'ts' or 'k' in isolation when you encounter it in words like 'Schnee' or 'Chemie'. * Historically, 'sz' _was_ written as two separate letters. This strongly suggests that there are no significant ambiguities arising from writing it as two separate letters (as far as I know the change was mostly made for typographic reasons). Furthermore, the combination is visually distinctive enough that it is easy to spot. * The convention of using 'ss' to indicate 'sz' is much worse, since it breaks the simple rules on which German pronunciation is based: you cannot determine the length of the vowel preceding the 'ss' anymore. Any rare pair would be better than 'ss' to indicate sharp-s in the absence of the special character, even 'xx', 'sx', 'qz', etc. 'sz' just happens to be an infrequent pair, somewhat meaningful (the 's' indicates the sound, the 'z' absence of voicing (in German)), historically accurate, and in agreement with usage in several other languages. Sure, words like "saszen", "Fuesze", and "Uebermasz", may look unusual at first if you are used to reading them with an umlaut and a sharp-s, but that doesn't demonstrate that indicating an umlaut and a sharp-s in that way intrinsically has to be confusing. Thomas.
Technical Details
Message-ID:
<TMB.91May21044353@volterra.ai.mit.edu>Path:
arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ai-lab!life!tmbReferences:
<1991May4.190533.13629@ira.uka.de> <617@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de>Show Full Headers
Complete Article Headers
Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ai-lab!life!tmb From: tmb@ai.mit.edu (Thomas M. Breuel) Newsgroups: comp.fonts,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Umlaute [was: naive (...question about uncial...) ] Message-ID: <TMB.91May21044353@volterra.ai.mit.edu> Date: 21 May 91 08:43:53 GMT References: <1991May4.190533.13629@ira.uka.de> <617@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de> Sender: news@ai.mit.edu Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab Lines: 41 In-reply-to: bergmann@leland.Stanford.EDU's message of 20 May 91 19:02:49 GMT