🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1993Jan21.172248.13913@bsu-ucs>, 00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
|> 
|> Hello, all.  I just got Metamorphosis Pro and I've been converting several PS
|> Type 1 fonts to TrueType.  (What can I say- I like it! :)  What I need to know
|> is, if I convert copyrighted fonts (Say, Adobe Garamond) can these fonts then
|> be distributed, or are they still copyrighted to Adobe?  I recall a few months
|> (maybe a year?) back that faces converted between formats were no longer
|> copyrighted.  I just wanna be SAFE before I go posting any of them to the
|> InterNet.
|> 
|> Thanks much for any/all help and advice!
|> 
|> Bruce
|> -- 
|> .sig?  We don' need no steenkin' .sig!
|> 
|> Bruce Anderson: A tradition of Chaos and Disorder since 1967
|> spock@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (unix)	00bwanderson@bsu-ucs.uucp (VAX)
|> Don't look at me in that tone of voice!  BSU disclaims me, and I disclaim them.

  The answer is a resounding NO !!

  If a scaled font (PostScript or True Type) is copyrighted, you must
 get permission before you distribute any converted versions.

  This comes from my user group 'porting TrueType fonts from the Mac to
the Apple IIGS.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                               Dan White
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes  I  think  the  surest  sign  that  intelligent  life exists
 elsewhere  in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
                                                  Calvin (Bill Waterson)

In <C19KtA.DM@netnews.jhuapl.edu> ygor@3d2c.jhuapl.edu (Daniel E. White  (F2C)) writes:

>  If a scaled font (PostScript or True Type) is copyrighted, you must
> get permission before you distribute any converted versions.

But it must be said that if you did pay for the fonts, you have the
right to convert them to any format you want for your own use. 

(Of course, in this case the point's kind of moot.... I've had a
freeware TrueType Garamond clone for about a year now....)

Rob

In <1993Jan21.172248.13913@bsu-ucs> 00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:


>Hello, all.  I just got Metamorphosis Pro and I've been converting several PS
>Type 1 fonts to TrueType.  (What can I say- I like it! :)  What I need to know
>is, if I convert copyrighted fonts (Say, Adobe Garamond) can these fonts then
>be distributed, or are they still copyrighted to Adobe?  I recall a few months
>(maybe a year?) back that faces converted between formats were no longer
>copyrighted.  I just wanna be SAFE before I go posting any of them to the
>InterNet.

It depends on the country you are in whether the fonts themselves are
copyrighted, but the programs to print them (i.e. the PostScript) is, and the
converted programs just as well -- think of it as having the copyrighted
source code of a program, compiling that won't change the copyright status --
coverting is another way of compiling (and vice versa), so I won't distribute
those fonts, if you want to stay inside the law.

If you want to distrubute fonts for free, I encourage you, but, even when
those big font sellers ask to much money for their things, and pay to much to
their lawyers, I don't think it is proper to distribute their work -- just
make your own for yourself, or pick free fonts to distribute --unlike some
people tell here on the newsgroup, there are perfect and good hinted fonts in
the public domain -- whereas I often see commercial vendors ask huge amounts
of money for horrible fonts -- just received a sample of a Hebrew font that is
so ugly and clearly made in one night -- still they asked 75 pounds for it.

--
Jeroen

-- 
Jeroen Hellingman                 E-mail: <jhelling@cs.ruu.nl>
't Zand 2                         Phone: +31-3473-73935 (home)
4133 TB Vianen                    (18.00--21.00 GMT)
The Netherlands                   Answer in English, German, or Dutch.

Hi,

It is important to note that if you own a font, and convert it for use
on the same computer (ie. MAC font from type 1 to TT), that probably is
ok. However, I'm sure that Adobe and other companies frown upon the
practice of converting a Macintosh font to a PC or SUN font (or vice
versa).

This is one of those legal gray areas... IMHO it does seem ridiculous to
bye a font and have to buy it again for other computers (I own both a
Macintosh and PC).


Cheers,

Philip

Hello, all. 

Many thanks to those of you who wrote in response to my original post about the
legality of distributing copyrighted fonts that had been converted to TrueType.

I would have to say it's a unanimous "no."  I thank you for your help!

Bruce 
-- 
.sig?  We don' need no steenkin' .sig!

Bruce Anderson: A tradition of Chaos and Disorder since 1967
spock@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (unix)	00bwanderson@bsu-ucs.uucp (VAX)
Don't look at me in that tone of voice!  BSU disclaims me, and I disclaim them.

00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes
> 
> Hello, all.  I just got Metamorphosis Pro and I've been converting several  
PS
> Type 1 fonts to TrueType.  (What can I say- I like it! :)  What I need to  
know
> is, if I convert copyrighted fonts (Say, Adobe Garamond) can these fonts  
then
> be distributed, or are they still copyrighted to Adobe? 

You absolutely can't distribute those converted fonts.  The copyright
covers derivative works, and you will get yourself into a lot of hot water
posting them to the Internet.  It seems to me that it should say something
about this in the Metamorphosis Pro manual.

--
 Glenn Reid        		NeXTmail: glenn@rightbrain.com
 RightBrain Software		415-326-2974 (NeXTfax 326-2977)
 Palo Alto, California		Electronic Frontier Foundation, member #054

In article <7dl3ah=@rpi.edu>, kudla@acm.rpi.edu (Robert Kudla) wrote:
> 
> In <C19KtA.DM@netnews.jhuapl.edu> ygor@3d2c.jhuapl.edu (Daniel E. White  (F2C)) writes:
> 
> >  If a scaled font (PostScript or True Type) is copyrighted, you must
> > get permission before you distribute any converted versions.
> 
> But it must be said that if you did pay for the fonts, you have the
> right to convert them to any format you want for your own use. 
> 
> (Of course, in this case the point's kind of moot.... I've had a
> freeware TrueType Garamond clone for about a year now....)

it is a dual problem in Europe. The License agreement you are bound
to say explicitly not to decompile a font (Adobe). It is forbidden,
but Adobe Illustrater does exactly that for shaping Type 1 Fonts.
In other words the same company which forbids the decompilation of
fonts sells the program with the feature to decompile the fonts!!!

Metamorphosis, Fontographer, Fontstudio and Fontmonger also have to
decompile the fonts in an intermediate format to recompile it into 
Truetype.

Just an opinion!

Christian Bauer

bauer@informatik.uni-ulm.de

Glenn Reid writes :

> [Converted fonts cannot be re-distributed.] The copyright covers
> derivative works.

That is correct; however, quite what this means is not entirely clear.
The _stated_ position of the copyright office appears to be that
digital outlines cannot be protected by copyright [see U.S. copyright
office policy decisions on copyrightability of digital typefaces,
September 29, 1988, 53 FR 38110 and February 21, 1992, 57 FR 6201].
The view of the copyright office is that -
 
  In order to avoid any confusion about the scope of certificates
  of registration for computer programs used in the generation of
  digitized representations of typefaces, the office will not accept
  a nature of authorship statement of 'entire work', 'entire computer
  program', 'entire text', or the like. Only descriptions such as
  'computer program' should be used.
 
It follows from this [and it is trite law] that merely because an
outline is obtained from a copyrighted typeface program does not
make a typeface program containing that outline a work derived from
the original copyrighted program within the meaning of the copyright
law. In fact, 53 FR 38110 required anyone claiming registration for
a typeface-generating program expressly to disclaim any copyright
in the digital representation of a typeface; this requirement was
removed by 53 FR 6201, but the latter decision "does not represent
a substantive change in the rights of copyright claimants." Thus,
simply to state that copying the digital outlines of a typeface
would result in a derivative work would be false. However, the
position is complicated by the fact that the 'outline information'
contained in a typeface-generating program may well be an
inseparable mixture of data and instructions. Consider the
process by which a rasterizer produces a character outline. It
obtains from the typeface-generating program data for control
points representing a pre-hinted outline (I call this proto-outline
information). It then transforms these control points by applying
'hints' (whether declarative or procedural) to produce a 'deformed'
outline representing a character at a given size; the outline can
then be scan-converted. Type vendors have argued with some force
that we cannot sensibly distinguish between proto-outline information
and the instructions which deform it; both are part of the set of
instructions to the rasterizer to produce a given character shape.
Thus we cannot extract this proto-outline information from a font
program free from the typeface program copyright. It is for this
reason that fonts converted to truetype with metamorphosis cannot
be distributed. I would draw attention to the distinction I have
drawn between proto-outline information contained within a typeface
program, which in all probably is protected by copyright, and
a ditigal outline which is ready for scan-conversion (ie. one to
which all transformations have been applied). I have previously
argued that the latter is not protected by copyright and can be
used as the basis of an independent typeface program. Perhaps this
is what prompted Bruce to think that converted fonts could be
distributed; I remain of the view that there exist ways to obtain
outline information (without the hints, of course) without breach
of copyright; it's just that metamorphosis can't do it.
 
Nigel Yeoh c/o Chee Mei Yeoh

 

So, essentially, if I "drop-n-drag" or "trace outline" using a font editor
I am essentialy swiping someone else's _code_ (and any little hidden
"extra" code will be included).  But on the other hand if I print and scan
the _output_ and recontruct it from scratch (the only way to get a good
recreation anyway), then we are into the very gray "look-n-feel" area.  
Certainly nobody can _copyright_ the geometry of a "b" from courier ("that's
Microsoft's circle and bar, son!).  Similarly, while importing a kerning
table is again swiping _code_, nobody can copyright the combination of
characters (Microsoft owns the "WA" combination?).  Essentially, if I can
recreate a font without ever reading the original code directly using a
font editor, I have not stolen any _code_, rather I have been "inspired" by
the look of a font to generate my own version.


-- 
Gavin Helf
UC Berkeley Political Science
Berkeley-Stanford Program in Soviet Studies
ghelf@violet.berkeley.edu