Thread View: comp.groupware
4 messages
4 total messages
Started by Rob Kling
Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:28
Clarification re. Behind the Terminal
Author: Rob Kling
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:28
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:28
100 lines
4594 bytes
4594 bytes
Re: Paul Eggert's comments..... Dear Paul, I'd like to keep this reply short .... but there are several misperceptions in your note which merit comment and some correction. First: Re. Barry Boehm's Software Engineering Economics. I don't have my copy in this office, so I can't check it again. But Boehm is sensitive to issues of organizational context ... and his book was an extremely important contribution to helping managers and professionals estimate the costs of large scale (aerospace-like) software development projects. The center point of the book is a quantitative cost-estimation model: COCOMO. Boehm's book does not deal with issues of systems analysis -- ie., what systems are appropriate to build. He deals with different issues. ============================== Second: You claim: "The only mention of traditional methods in Kling's case study was a dismissive remark about how a traditional system analyst would probably have made the mistake of choosing TeX over WordPerfect. This brief and (in my view) incorrect remark hardly constitutes an honest comparison of two rival systems." The case study is described in section 3, with relatively little analysis. The analysis of the case which contrasts discrete entity and web models runs through much of sections 4.0 and 5.0 .. two fairly long sections. (This is a complex article and cannot be readily comprehended by on-line scanning). ================================ Third: You claim: "Kling's article presents an extensive bibliography for web-like models, but for ``traditional'' models, instead of citations the article contains only a conveniently weak description that has little to do with how system analysis is practiced or taught. If you turn to real practitioners, or even real textbooks, you'll find a much different picture." I encourage you to examine the following books about systems analysis or the management of information systems in organizations: Functional Analysis of Office Requirements: A Multiperspective Approach. G. Schafer. John Wiley 1988. Professional Systems Development: Experience, Ideas and Action. Niels Erik Anderson, et. al. Prentice Hall, 1990. Managing Information Systems for Profit. Tim Lincoln (ed). John Wiley, 1990. Corporate IS Management: Text and Cases (3rd Ed.) James cash, et. al. Irwin, 1992. Management Information Systems: A Contemporary Perspective. (2nd Ed) Kenneth C. Laudon and Jane P. Laudon. McMillan, 1991. Information Systems: A Management Perspective. Addison-Wesley, 1992. ========================== This is a representative selection of generally better books used to teach end-user IS implementation in colleges and universities. Each of them is sensitive to the role of organizational context, in some way, with varying levels of attention. The attention is often strategic (ie, link IS and organizational strategy). A few of these books mention the term "infrastructure" (a key element of web models) but discuss it in 1-2 pages of a 300-500 page exposition. Most don't use that term, but rfeer to specific elements of infrastructure, most commonly to training end users. None of them examine the issue that an organization's skill levels may be a key part of systems analysis: either in placing constraints on what kinds of systems would be appropriate to design or acquire .... or in making demands for significant organizational development re. setting conditions systematically shifting the skills and practices of managers, professionals and other system users. ------------------ Fourth: I agree that my bibliography could include specific citations to the gaps that I see in contemporary books such as these. I had an extensive set of references to books and articlke which rest on discret entity models in "Defining the Boundaries ..." I decided to write "Behind the Tremainal" more as an exposition of the value of treating infrastructure as a central analytical construct than as an elaborate critique of the literature. ================== I appreciate your coments ... because they help me better understand how various readers interpret the paper. Best wishes, Rob Kling
Re: Clarification re. Behind the Terminal
Author: Lloyd Taylor
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:19
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:19
3 lines
560 bytes
560 bytes
Are the two papers mentioned available in postscript format? -- Lloyd Taylor
Re: Clarification re. Behind the Terminal
Author: Duane F Marble
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:42
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:42
10 lines
926 bytes
926 bytes
An excellent book which is not in the bibliography is:
Eason, Ken
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND ORGANISATIONAL CHANGE. London: Taylor
& Francis, 1988. ISBN 0-85066-388-1
--
Duane F. Marble E-mail: dmarble@magnus.acs.osu.edu
Department of Geography Telephone: (614) 292-2250
The Ohio State University
Columbus, Ohio 43210 Fax: (614) 292-6213
Re: Clarification re. Behind the Terminal
Author: David Greene
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:33
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:33
54 lines
3534 bytes
3534 bytes
Excerpts from netnews.comp.infosystems: 17-Aug-92 Re: Clarification re. Behin.. roy schmidt@copper.ucs.i (2063) > When a framework is built, the usual objective is to give > researchers and practitioners a tool whereby the separable elements can > be identified and then systematically isolated for study. The notion of systematic isolation is not integral to a framework. A framework can simply identify relevant characteristics and relationships and can provide a particular perspective in understanding a problem. Interdependence (isolatability) may or may not be part of the framework. > But a point made repeatedly in Rob's paper is that these elements are > *not* separable, and cannot be broken down into subsystems, etc., for > study. The analyst must learn to cope with real life, where all the > dynamic factors are constantly interacting and creating new situations. A "holistic" view is fine conceptually, but implementing a holistic approach requires some kind of structure (amorphous though it may seem). I was not implying that it be "tacked on" to the discrete entity model. What I was suggesting was that it would be valuable to describe a more rigorous approach to operationalizing the interpersonal environmental effects associated with the existing system... and potential implications for the design of the new system. For example: Excerpts: 14-Aug-92 Article -- Behind the Termi.. Rob Kling@ics.uci.edu (38592) > We propose three criteria for drawing the boundaries of > larger scale situations Sc which serve as useful contexts for a given focal situation Sf (Kling, 1987). Here he attempts to provide an operationalization for characterizing boundaries. Throughout he makes reference to various approaches, theories and models which can be used to instantiate his notions of interdependencies or considerations. I admit that I have not read his other papers which he cites. Presumably those provide more detailed descriptions. My point was that providing a more rigorous approach which operationalized the interpersonal environment would be a major contribution. His empirical examples seem to indicate that is achievable in his specific study. But as Rob himself notes: Excerpts: 14-Aug-92 Article -- Behind the Termi.. Rob Kling@ics.uci.edu (17947) > I would > like to conclude with a neat method so that any analyst could > readily identify the infrastructural resources which are critical > for a computer system and workable for her organization. This > method would provide a satisfying conclusion to a long chapter. > Unfortunately, I do not have a such a method. Nor is the search > for a simple method a good way to learn from this chapter. The > case of the DCRP and the subsequent discussion illustrates many > key ideas about the way that computing infrastructures are > tailored for specific systems and social settings.
Thread Navigation
This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.
Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.
Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.
Back to All Threads