🚀 go-pugleaf

In <31684F33.2528@ibm.net> Ernie Wright <javaguy@ibm.net> writes:

>Vlastimil Adamovsky wrote:
>> ark@research.att.com (Andrew Koenig) wrote:
>> >In article <4k3cdo$np5@taurus.adnc.com> tsikes@netcom.com (Terry Sikes) writes:
         [. . . tons deleted ...]
>> >> in it, and it's very elegantly constructed and architected."
>> >Of course, the head of Java marketing is expected to say things like this,
>> >--
>> I think, that people are too excited by Java (which is an interesting,
>> though an oversold language even if free).
>> Most people, who are saying that Java is going to replace C++ are
>> either interested in, what they say, financially or they simply don't
>> want to admit that they failed to master such a powerfull tool as C++
>> certainly is.
>You beg the question regarding why those who like JAVA may have failed 
>to "master" Smalltalk and C++.....for example, which flavor of Smalltalk
>and which flavor of C++ are you the "master" of?  If you work on JAVA 
>you can be certain that you know the language.
    This illuminates part of the problem:  Java uses a lot of OO
concepts, but you can't learn OO thinking just by learning the syntax
of C++ (for example).  I think that what Vladimir is saying is that
you need to learn OO analysis and OO design to really use C++
effectively.  Smalltalk and Eiffel probably get you there quicker,
because they are inherently OO ("everything's an object", &c.),
whereas C++ just gives you some nifty new syntax, unless you spend a
lot of time thinking in object-oriented terms.
   Beginning CS courses ought to postpone coding until at least the
3rd year, concentrating on analysis & design the first 2. (I suppose,
though, that you HAVE to do some coding to justify all those computers
and teaching assistants, so Smalltalk is probably the best bet.
   It's a lot easier to learn C and its variants after you've learned
Smalltalk, than the other way around.  And after you've done Smalltalk,
you'll be able to make good use of C++'s features.)
   There is a lot of marketing hype surrounding Java (but then, that'e
the only way you get noticed these days).  The idea of a VM has been
around for a long time - at least since UCSD Pascal's P-code.  It just
turns out that now that the Web is here, Java's time has come.

Mike Zorn      ozma@kaiwan.com   |  Thought for the day:
  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ozma/   |    Java is C--