🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1992Oct12.134552.28923@news2.cis.umn.edu> fin@unet.umn.edu (Craig A. Finseth) writes:
>In article <Bvz690.2L3@portal.hq.videocart.com>, kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
>|> 
>|> Well, I believe I find myself agreeing with John here...
>|> 
>|> The network we're connected to here at work (Alternet) SPECIFICALLY permits
>|> commercial conduct.  Moreover, they give you pretty free reign with the pipe
>	...
>|> This is NOT how some providers work.  Not all of them have a R&E AUP - some
>|> have an even MORE restrictive AUP than the NSF -- even some who are 
>|> commercial.  Some providers explicitly forbid third-party traffic, as an 
>|> example.
>|> 
>|> However, if a network wishes to filter traffic based on some AUP, it is
>|> THEIR responsibility to do so.  NOT the originator -- as long as the point
>|> of origin and the network they connect to says their conduct is "ok".
>|> Therefore, since I am in the US, in Illinois, the material I post to the net
>
>Two points to consider:
>
>1) When an organization connects to NSFNET, it agrees to be
>responsible for refraining from sending non-acceptable traffic to
>NSFNET.  It is up to this orgranization to determine how to fulfull
>this obligation.  If the organization is a common carrier or other
>commerical organization, one way of fulfilling this obligation would
>be to educate all of its customers about the restriction.

When an organization connects to a COMMERCIAL network provider, they do not
necessarily connect to the NSFNET (in fact, they don't at all).  Therefore,
the NSF AUP does not apply.

If the provider passes the traffic ANYWAY then it is their problem, or the
recipients.

Alternet provides services to commercial entities, and does not
automatically connect you to the NSF core (unless you ask).  Therefore, the
issue is just not there for those sites which haven't asked.

Again, if the message >somehow< gets to the NSF core  while you have not
agreed to the AUP, then the originator is not responsible.

>2) In general, it is not possible to examine a particular piece of
>traffic and determine >from it alone< whether it meets AUP needs.  You
>must understand who sent it, who received it, and what it is for.
>This is why NSF has chosen (well, been forced to) to require the
>orginiator to take responsibility.

Only if the originator has agreed to the policy and wants their routes
announced.  Otherwise, its not their problem.

-- 
Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com
VideOcart Inc.		Voice: (312) 987-5022