🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <CIMARRON.91May15073323@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU> cimarron@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU (Cimarron D. Taylor </>) writes:
>	and there is also this nifty new ``NeXTdimension'' board which
>	features 30 fps JPEG video and a lot of other mondo features which

So the PEG bugs are fixed?  It actually functions now?  What's base
price on a NeXT w/ dimension + genlock + a ton of interactive multimedia,
modeling and titling software?

That's what I thought.

Buy an Amiga, buy a Toaster, get a CDTV and developer's kit,
buy AmigaVision... :-)


--
J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126
Skate UNIX or bleed, boyo...(UNIX is a trademark of Unix Systems Laboratories).
[As soon as my Amiga 3000 arrives, it'll be Skate Motorola time!]

SO they have the toaster for the Amiga 3000 available do they? Last I heard
I had to buy an old technology Amiga 2000 or 2500 to put a Toaster in. 

The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think
is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will
probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. There are lots of other
things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in
an ethernet university environment. 

The counter arguments could go on for both sides forever. Different machines
are more appropriate for different applications, and Amiga is great at NTSC
video in some areas, but there is often a larger picture that the platform
has to fit into. 

I find than your comments are a bit obnoxious sounding, come off the soap
box for a while, tell us what your preferred platform does well, help when
help is needed, but don't attack....

In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes:

>The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think
>is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will
>probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. There are lots of other
>things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in
>an ethernet university environment. 
>
	I seem to remember being able to do this today, actually.
Requires a digitizer and a program such as ADPro which
manipulates 24 images. JPEG makes the process easier, admittedly,
in that it saves disk-drive room. But there's no reason you can't
do just what you described.

	-- Ethan

The constitution isn't perfect, but
it's better than what we have now.

In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes:
> SO they have the toaster for the Amiga 3000 available do they? Last I heard
> I had to buy an old technology Amiga 2000 or 2500 to put a Toaster in. 

The Toaster is not yet available for the A3000.  However, I don't recall
the Toaster being the point of the entire earlier post.  There are many
products both hardware and software that are available for the entire
Amiga line of computers that allow instant impressive video capability.

> 
> The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think
> is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will
> probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. There are lots of other
> things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in
> an ethernet university environment. 

What do you base this on?  I think it very likely that JPEG will come 
to the Amiga.  I would even be bold enough to say that probably sooner
than later.  I really do not see a specail 'feature' in the NeXT that
makes this type of work more 'do-able'.

As far as existing 'cleanly' in a ethernet environment goes.  I would
be interested in your idea of 'clean'.  Amigas have been able to use
'ethernet' since 1986.  Not exactly nor really exciting technology if
you ask me.

> 
> The counter arguments could go on for both sides forever. Different machines
> are more appropriate for different applications, and Amiga is great at NTSC
> video in some areas, but there is often a larger picture that the platform
> has to fit into. 

I agree.  I think there is room for more than one hardware solution to 
problems.  I think this was the original reason for the first 'pro-amiga'
post.  You see the PC-noids and the Mac-freaks (there I said it!) and
their publications _always_ ignore better technology _if_ it is not 
MS/DOS or Mac compatible.  

As with most things what is "best" is often disregarded based on 
market-share, which is too bad.

You as a NeXT owner will get to experience this 'frustration' as
well.  :-)

> 
> I find than your comments are a bit obnoxious sounding, come off the soap
> box for a while, tell us what your preferred platform does well, help when
> help is needed, but don't attack....

They were a bit obnoxious, your comments were not much better.  But,
it does point out that even in multimedia the blinders are firmly in
place all around.

 -mark=
     
 +--------+   ==================================================          
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "The Most lopsided deal since ..."
 | /\  \/ |   manes@vger.nsu.edu                                        
 |     /  |   (804) 683-2532    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================
 "I protest Captain!  I am not a merry man!" - Lt. Worf

In article <1991May15.193236.4712@menudo.uh.edu> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) writes:
>In article <CIMARRON.91May15073323@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU> cimarron@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU (Cimarron D. Taylor </>) writes:
>>	and there is also this nifty new ``NeXTdimension'' board which
>>	features 30 fps JPEG video and a lot of other mondo features which
>
>So the PEG bugs are fixed?  It actually functions now?  What's base
>price on a NeXT w/ dimension + genlock + a ton of interactive multimedia,
>modeling and titling software?

   That sound like the Mac defensive arguments "Sure the toaster is wonderful:
does everything a TV studio does for less than 5000$, but have they fixed their
latest bugs?  Have they passed FCC?  And who owns amigas...  yak yak yak.

   For your information:

   NeXT Station, 100 Meg, 8 Meg ram, BW Monitor, 68040, DSP, softwares (UNIX)
   etc. for 4995$ list. 

   NeXT Dimension board, 32 bitplanes, 8 bitplanes alpha channel.  A really
   impressive card.  3995$ list.

   Educationnal discount available and very interesting.


   From: Walter Daugherity, September 18, 1990

   "...The 32-bit color board has a 33 MHz i860 (64-bit RISC) graphics processor
and a JPEG compression coprocessor from C-Cube, which lets you take live
video and compress and store it in real time (up to 60 minutes on the
optional 1.4 gigabyte internal hard disk).  All standard video inputs and
outputs are supported.  At 30,000 polygons per second (Gouraud shading,
triangular, meshed), this "true color" runs as fast as or faster than the
4 gray-level monochrome NeXT's."

   Software: one or two softwares directly aimed at multimedia.  Geesh, a
TON!  Can you list some of your TON of MULTIMEDIA software?

   Genlocks: the NeXTDimension card can be use as a genlock with video (S-VHS)
output, but I don't know yet if you can display live video in a window with 
it (digital).

>That's what I thought.

   What did you thought?  That the amiga offer more and cost less?
Well think again.  Amiga is an honest offer, but so is the NeXT.  

   On my NeXT I have a large display, a very good interface, display
postscript, Interface Builder, good sound (DSP), good object oriented 
languages, multimedia e-mail facilities, fax integration, etc. all standard.
The amiga family doesn't.

   Hear, at home I have a A3000.  Cost me around 6000$ CDN.  Been a developer
since 1986.  I like it and work profesionnaly on it.  But you must open your 
eyes and look at what's on the market.  I wouldn't put a NeXT at home (yet), 
but neither an Amiga in my buisness office (yet).

   In many labs like here, UNIX, X Windows and ethernet are mandatory.
Screen less than 16" are small and resolution less than 1000x1000 is
unsatisfactory.  When the A3000UX will be shipped with the 68040,
large screen, color, DSP, etc. I wonder how much they will sell their
machine.  Nothing is free, and competition is harsh.  Let me tell you that
NeXT have set one of the most interesting price war in the Workstation 
market.

   So, what are your solutions in the 1280x1024x24 RGB display area?  How much
does it cost??   And don't give me any flickering solution.  Video is
going digital anyway.  Oh, and which card do you recommend to compress
video?  Any C-Cube implementation on the horizon?

>
>Buy an Amiga, buy a Toaster, get a CDTV and developer's kit,
>buy AmigaVision... :-)

   I hope you realize that the toaster really SAVED the Amiga, or do you?
I agree that Commodore Dynamic Total Vision is a smart move, but for 
their sake they better MARKET IT before Phillips AND sony goes out with their
systems.

   And what do you think of AmigaVision?  It would be interesting to compare 
our experiences with some of our students that used it for the last 12 months...

>J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126


--
    // Daniel Martin                            Universite de Montreal   \\
   //  MediaLab, ca vous regarde!               C.P. 6128, Succursale A,  \\
\\//   Mail: martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA            Montreal (Quebec), CANADA, \\//
 \/    Tel.: (514) 343-6111 poste 3494          H3C 3J7                     \/

In article <1991May18.001444.4743@IRO.UMontreal.CA> martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) writes:
>
>   NeXT Station, 100 Meg, 8 Meg ram, BW Monitor, 68040, DSP, softwares (UNIX)
>   etc. for 4995$ list. 
>
>   NeXT Dimension board, 32 bitplanes, 8 bitplanes alpha channel.  A really
>   impressive card.  3995$ list.

The only problem is that you can't use the NeXT Dimension board with the
NeXT Stations :-)

The NeXT Station doesn't have any slots; you'll need to get a NeXT Cube,
which is about $8000.  As far as I know, the Cube is basically the same
as the Station, except that it has slots.

Yes, the NeXT Station *is* a nice machine, and when I was looking for
a computer to buy, I had a tough time deciding between it and the A3000.
Until I found out that there was no way to upgrade it to color.  I
HATE b&w.  If you want color, the NeXT Station Color is about $8000 and
gives you 1120 x 832 pixel 12 bit (4096 color) display with 12 MB.  Oh,
and you'll need the 340MB drive to do anything serious.

I really like the NeXT computers.  I just wish I could afford one.  :-)

Exactly. For instance.. Picked up a MacUser today with some news on System
7.0... They were making a big shit out what they call IPC... Inter-process
communication, making the average idiot think that this is some kind of
technical innoovation available only to Mac users..Sheesh.


Amigas have been doing inter-process communcation since 1985. BIG DEAL....
Even when I look back on what I reas about System 7 for the Mac, the Amiga
already has it all..Its like theyre doing a catch-up job.


Arctangent

In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes:

>There are lots of other things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, 
>like exist cleanly in an ethernet university environment. 

That's absolute bunk.  My Amiga here has been existing cleanly in an Ethernet
based engineering environment since before NeXT existed, period.

-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      PLINK: hazy     BIX: hazy
      "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.

> Exactly. For instance.. Picked up a MacUser today with some news on System
> 7.0... They were making a big shit out what they call IPC [....]

This term is generic and is in common use among UNIX programmers.  What it
all boils down to is that if you don't have processes, you can't have IPC.
Next....

-----
John B. Melby
Fujitsu Limited, Machida, Japan
melby%yk.fujitsu.co.jp@fai.com

>In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
> (Terry Jones) writes:
>
>>There are lots of other things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, 
>
>>like exist cleanly in an ethernet university environment. 
>
>That's absolute bunk.  My Amiga here has been existing cleanly in an Ethernet
>based engineering environment since before NeXT existed, period.
>
>-- 
>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
>   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      PLINK: hazy     BIX: hazy
>      "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.

(clap clap clap clap)

ArCTaNGeNt
Naperville, IL