🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <16DEC199215294682@carat.arizona.edu>, jms@carat.arizona.edu (A virtually vegetal non-entity) writes:
> In article <1992Dec15.143628.4673@spcvxb.spc.edu>, killeen@spcvxb.spc.edu 
> (Jeff Killeen) drones and then finally concludes...
                 ^^^^^^
What a friendly, mature, and productive why to start a reply.  It is these
wonderfully adult comments that makes one so willing to reply. 

> >BTW - Yes almost all of DECUS's management structure is elected by leadership.
> >However the final authority really is in the BOD which is elected by the
> >membership i.e. the folks elected by the membership get to overrule the folks
> >elected by the leadership.  Does it happen - no not really mainly because the
> >1000 or so leaders really aren't that far out of the main stream with the
> >10,000 or so active members.  If something flys with the leadership it is most
> >likely is reflective of what will fly with the active membership. 
> 
> Au contraire, my good MC representative, responsible for supporting my
> interests as a LUG member and speaker.  In fact, the highest levels of
> DECUS leadership are strongly at odds with the consumers of DECUS products. 
>
> Pay attention and you'll begin to figure it out: the largest product we
> have, by far, is the national symposium.  We happened to have one last
> week, in Las Vegas.  People go to these symposia for lots of reasons, but a
> large part of it is attending sessions, exhibits, campgrounds, and
> seminars.  However, the MC and the Board are in almost constant meetings
> during and before the symposium week.  These people do not attend DECUS
> sessions; visit DEXPO; take seminars; or visit in campgrounds.  They spend
> their entire week doing "DECUS business."  In fact, they do so much
> business that DECUS pays their expenses to come, because no sane employer
> would pay a Board member to go to DECUS and learn nothing.  

This is one of those replies where the logic is so faulty it would get laughed
out of philosophy 101. Its three basic logic faults are... 

	1) The case is being made that leadership is out of touch because .2
percent (20/1000=.2%) of the leadership does not attend sessions.  What I said
the 1000 or so members of leadership are reflective of the active members to
which the response is "Au contraire" because it can be shown 20 of them don't
attend sessions.  The actions of 20 don't imply the actions of the other 980.
For exactly the reason stated that "no sane employer would pay a Board member
to go to DECUS and learn nothing" most, if not all, of those 980 a high
consumers of DECUS products. 

	2) The case is being made that the senior leaders at "the highest
levels of DECUS leadership are strongly at odds with the consumers of DECUS
products" because they don't engage in all the activities the members do.  At
best you could claim that the senior leaders have to be careful not allow
themselves to go out of sync with membership but it is certainly not proof
that they "are strongly at odds with the consumers of DECUS products."  It is
also a false assumption that attending sessions is the only way to stay in
touch.  There are many ways this can happen.  In my case as NLC Chair I logged
60,000 air miles traveling around to local events and LUG meetings this year.
As MC Marketing function head I conducted a number of one on one interviews
with Symposia attendees this time.  Over half the BOD and MC members this time
made an effort to sit at random lunch tables each day and take input from the
folks on street (one of them even brought Jack Smith with them - boy was that
a surprised table).  In fact one MC member handed out his business cards and
ask them to follow up with their thoughts.  And of course we are doing
customer research where we are asking the tough questions like what type of
value does our Symposia have to give you to make it worth it for you and your
company. Joel while I strongly agree with you that senior leadership needs to
smell the armpits of the customers - and not assume by virtue of their office
they have the answers - there are many more ways than you suggested to achieve
this end goal. 

	3) The case is being made that if you attend sessions you are in touch
with the membership.  This is the most dangerous of all the false logic.
Several of the most destructive members of past senior leadership groups
claimed that their opinions were valid because they attended sessions and
campgrounds and understood the voice of the customer - when in fact all they
heard was what would validated their already preconceived ideas.  The fact is
you are far better off with the senior leadership you have today which clearly
understands the need to smell the customer's armpits than the senior leadership
of just a few years ago who attended sessions but never really gained any
input.  If your culture is your opinions and beliefs are correct - and not the
customers opinions and beliefs are what you make judgement calls on - you will
be just as out of touch sitting is sessions and campgrounds all day long. 

> Now, you can argue that spending a week in Las Vegas playing backroom
> politics is a good experience.  It prepares you for the vigors of real
> business, and trains you in the art of backstabbing, compromise, meeting,
> and consensus.  However: this is not why the "10,000 or so active" members
> come to the event.  In fact, once a DECUS leader becomes an MC or board
> member, he or she is guaranteed to be so far out of touch with the rest
> of the society that he (sorry Marg, for the gender problem) is guaranteed
> to be out of touch.  

As I said earlier this guarantees nothing and is false logic.  It certainly 
allows one to live more easily is a false world but does not guarantee that you 
are living in a false world.

The reason why our attendees (for the most part) come to Symposia and Seminars
is because they are looking for practical technical information that will make
them and their company/enterprise more successful.  They want real world
solutions and advice from fellow technically oriented users who are working
the same types of problems they are.  They want to be able to meet with the
vendor's engineering community and dialog.  They want to be able to network
with their fellow peers.  They don't want politics.  They don't want sales
sessions that tell them here is a problem now buy my product to solve it.  And
they don't want a ton of theory sessions that have no immediate application.
The want real world technically oriented users and vendor engineering staffs
sharing with them how to most effectively leverage their computing
environment. They want the opportunity to interact with the vendors in order
to gain improved products.  They want a trade show type environment where they
can comparison shop. And finally it is very important this all be in a
multi-vendor context.  DECUS must be the skill/information source for those
who are response for implementing and delivering technology for their
enterprise.  The customer metric must as a result of their contact with DECUS
did they gain enough in value to make them and their company successful enough
to offset the time and dollar cost invested to consume. 

> There are many leaders, myself included, who would be happy to take a
> greater role in DECUS products---if doing so didn't require sitting on MC. 
> The MC has so far forgotten what the goal of the society is that they
> deliberately interrupt the REAL activities of the week for their own
> business.  Witness the way a seminar speaker was pulled out of a
> seminar---filled with PAYING ATTENDEES WHO WERE INTERESTED IN WHAT HE HAD
> TO SAY---so that the MC could grill him in person.  Or the way a chair was
> forced to spend an entire afternoon in MC meetings, fighting backroom,
> secret politics---while the sessions he was supposed to give fell to
> unprepared pinch-hitters during that time.  Sure, the PAYING ATTENDEES lost
> out on an experience, but how could the MC relate to that?

Joel I know _exactly_ what happened in this case and the information you have
been feed is wrong.  The individual involved is a member of the management
council and has been a MC observer prior to the time he joined the MC.  He was
well aware that the MC meets every Saturday before Symposia.  He told no one
prior to his arrival in Las Vegas that he was scheduled to team teach a
seminar on Saturday.  If he had done this his agenda item would have been
rescheduled until latter in the week.  When he did inform the MC Chair he had
a conflict the response was fine just send one of the other members of your
committee it is only a status report.  Another member of his committee _was_
in town on Friday and Saturday.  He choose not to send an alternate and he
choose not to request his agenda item be moved to Tuesday or Wednesday.  When
he showed up on Saturday no one was more surprised than the MC Chair. 

Now here is the real kicker Joel - In fact his seminar was going to be
canceled because it is team taught and therefore requires 9 attendees to cover
costs.  The individual involved informed the Seminars Committee that they
didn't have to cover his expenses because he was now a member of the MC and
therefore they could use the lower threshold number of 6 - the number that
registered for the seminar.  If our friend had not been a member of the MC
that Seminar would have been canceled and those 6 attendees would have been
out of luck.  Additionally if the attendees complain and there is a chapter
foul-up they get their money back.  To my knowledge none of the 6 complained. 

> Jeff, here's a challenge: "survey" the MC (after all, research is the new
> methodology) and get a list of sessions they attended.  Or gave.  Then,
> let's see who's out of touch with whom.

Answered above - and keep in mind again my original point related to the 1000 
and not the 20 being discussed here.

-- 
Jeff Killeen - DECUS U.S. Chapter NLC Chair | Email:killeen@eisner.decus.org

DECUS is for folks who are responsible for delivering computing technology.
The NLC is the national council for DECUS's Local User Groups - come join us!