🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <4496@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, tencati@nssdcb.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ron Tencati) writes:

>If you want your voice heard, get in touch with your SIG Executive 
>Committees or your LUG Chairs. These people all have accounts on the
>DECUS Communications System (DCS) computer system which enables DECUS
>leadership to communicate with each other between symposia. Not all
>leaders read DECUSERVE, or COMP.ORG.DECUS, but they are required
>(requested?) to check their DCS mail as often as they can. 

I don't suppose that you could post Internet addresses for the appropriate
committee members? Or is DCS not linked into any network?  Or I have to go get
an audience with SIG leadership first? 

Hmm. At least I was able to pick up the phone and bitch at my congressman on
how he voted on the use of force in the Persian, er Arabian Gulf crisis. Easy
to do, since the congressman has a staff to answer the phone.

>The leadership can speak for you, the concerned DECUS attendee, 
>in places and circles where you cannot. 

If the problem is with the leadership.....

>The ethical issues surrounding the Mitnick incident, questions about 
>how much DECUS is influenced by DEC - and why, the DECUS/DEXPO 
>relationship, as well as a much larger issue, a major overhaul of the
>DECUS internal structure, are being debated and discussed very
>actively between DECUS leadership. The key word here is DEBATED. The
>DECUS leadership are not in total agreement on how these issues should
>be handled or resolved. But they are discussing them in a reasonably-
>professional manner for a bunch of volunteer leaders, and your voices
>have not been ignored in their discussions. Leadership is very much 
>plugged in to what concerns the users.

DECUS leadership has not conveyed this discussion to the masses. Or maybe I'm
wrong, but there's nothing sitting in my mailbox which says "Hello DECUS
member, these are the issues we are discussing." Do I have to pay more money to
get onto DECUSERVE to be heard? 

>But if you want to be a part of the change, instead of just part of 
>the "static", let your immediate DECUS leadership know your feelings.
>Don't just post something here. Call somebody.  If you want to get 
>involved in DECUS leadership in hopes that your voice can help change
>things - go for it!  There is usually a session titled "Call for DECUS
>Volunteers" or "So, you want to be a DECUS Leader" sponsored by LDEC.

There should be another alternative to entering DECUS leadership other than
showing up at Symposia. I was quite disturbed that one of the "requirements"
for being a nominated BoD candidate was to show up at symposia for 3 years
running. 

>These sessions provide the background information for how to get 
>involved in DECUS and how to get into leadership.  The Board also has
>an open Board meeting that any symposium registrant can attend and be 
>heard, so avenues exist.

Not everyone can afford to go to Symposium twice a year. With the current
financial situtation of the University, I'll be lucky to go once a decade. 

We have several electronic networks. You have access, the UNISIG chair does.
Why not any of the BoD members ?  How long does it take to electronically post
minutes to here and comp.os.vms? 

>blow smoke, nothing gets done. Nothing changes. Instead of 
>philosophizing about how things "should be done", consider lending a 
>hand, a voice, and some time to make things get done.  Then you too 
>can be flamed by the symposia attendees who think all of DECUS 
>leadership stinks...

You sound bitter. Not everyone should be hanged in effegy. At the same time, if
DECUS, the body, claims me as a member, I have the right as a member to flame.
Marshmellows anyone?

complain.

     Reform may be dying in the Soviet Union, but we have the right to 
                introduce it to the DECUS Board of Directors. 

  -- >                  SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU                        < --

In article <009451A5.83C422A0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU>, sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) writes:

#I don't suppose that you could post Internet addresses for the appropriate
#committee members? Or is DCS not linked into any network?  Or I have to go get
#an audience with SIG leadership first? 

Some fraction of DECUS leadership is on the network.  For example, I think most
(if not all) of the UNISIG is on the network.  Unfortunately, I have never seen
a E-mail Phone Book mapping DECUS members to Electronic Mailboxes.  Perhaps
there is a need to develop one.

DECUServe is on the network thanks to the VMSnet working group.  The address is 
USERNAME@eisner.decus.org.  Someday, I hope to discover who "eisner" was.

As for DCS, you are correct in that you can't send mail to it.  Even if you
have a DECUServe account you can't send mail to it.  This is a policy that is
(finally) beginning to change, and I hope that by Atlanta 1991 you will be able
to send mail to anyone on DCS.  We shall see...

John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon    :    MCMAHON@TGV.COM    : TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
TGV, Incorporated            :                       :    T   GGGGGGG  V     V
603 Mission Street           : HAVK (abha) Gur bayl  :    T  G          V   V
Santa Cruz, California 95060 : bcrengvat flfgrz gb   :    T  G    GGGG   V V
408-427-4366 or 800-TGV-3440 : or qrfgeblrq ol znvy  :    T   GGGGGGG     V

In article <009451A5.83C422A0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU>, sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) writes:
> In article <4496@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, tencati@nssdcb.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ron Tencati) writes:
> 
> I don't suppose that you could post Internet addresses for the appropriate
> committee members? Or is DCS not linked into any network?  Or I have to go get
> an audience with SIG leadership first? 
> 

At the current point in time, there is not anyway to contact DECUS 
electronically.  There is a project going to connect DECUServe and DCS to the 
Internet.  It is still a couple of months away from any hookups.

Until that time, I am willing to accept any messages at 
DECUS@NIELAND.DAYTON.OH.US which I will transfer to DCS (via modem) and pass 
on to the approriate parties.

(Note: Most of the BoD members do have internet addresses and have indicated 
they read INFO-VAX (though they are usually not up to date).

> 
> We have several electronic networks. You have access, the UNISIG chair does.
> Why not any of the BoD members ?  How long does it take to electronically post
> minutes to here and comp.os.vms? 
> 

The society is currently discussing set up access to NEWS and newsgroups like 
comp.org.decus  to notify membership what is going on in DECUS.  The best way 
to help this out is to contact members of the Leadership and indicate that you 
think this a is a good idea.


Ted Nieland				nieland_t@kahuna.asd-yf.wpafb.af.mil
Control Data Corporation		nieland@dayfac.cdc.com
(513) 427-6355				ted@nieland.dayton.oh.us

DECUS US Chapter  VAX SIG Steering Committee/L&T SIG Librairan/Library Committee
                  National LUG Council ....

DECUS Does need more leadership volunteers.....

> As for DCS, you are correct in that you can't send mail to it.  Even if you
> have a DECUServe account you can't send mail to it.  This is a policy that is
> (finally) beginning to change, and I hope that by Atlanta 1991 you will be able
> to send mail to anyone on DCS.  We shall see...

One of the biggest problems in dealing with Decus is finding the responsible
party.  For example, who is responsible for the policy of keeping DCS off the
net.  I for one would be happy to place a few phone calls.

In article <009451A5.83C422A0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU>, sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) writes:
> In article <4496@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, tencati@nssdcb.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ron Tencati) writes:
> 
>>If you want your voice heard, get in touch with your SIG Executive 
>>Committees or your LUG Chairs. These people all have accounts on the
>>DECUS Communications System (DCS) computer system which enables DECUS
>>leadership to communicate with each other between symposia. Not all
>>leaders read DECUSERVE, or COMP.ORG.DECUS, but they are required
>>(requested?) to check their DCS mail as often as they can. 
> 
> I don't suppose that you could post Internet addresses for the appropriate
> committee members? 

I would if I knew who they were...

> Or is DCS not linked into any network?  

Not currently, but that should be changing...

> Or I have to go get an audience with SIG leadership first? 

Not that I know of, but the names below are from the "published" information of 
those that are on the Languages and Tools SIG Steering Committee... 

Folder Editor:
   amby@eisner.decus.org           ! Donald E. Amby - on DECUServe
   don@amby.mixcom.com             ! Donald E. Amby - at home
Assist. Wishlist Coord:
   bauer@stsci.edu                 ! Ted Bauer
Volunteer Coord:
   shirley@capsrv.jhuapl.edu       ! Shirley Bockstahler-Brandt
Wishlist Coord:
Debug Working Group Chair:
   tcomeau@stsci.edu               ! Tom Comeau
Notes Working Group Chair:
Symposia Reporter:
   durkin@eisner.decus.org         ! Michael Durkin
Newsletter Editor:
   uunet!bigmax!folsom             ! Alan Folsom, Jr.
Teco Working Group Chair:
   mjhyde@sunrise.bitnet           ! Mark J. Hyde
Projects Coord:
DECUServe Moderator:
Assistant Working Group Coord:
   jmi@dac.mdcbbs.com              ! J.M. (JM) Ivler
   ivler@eisner.decus.org          ! DECUServe address
Session Notes Editor:
Pascal Working Group Chair:
   katz@eisner.decus.org           ! Mark Katz
Standards [ANSI Fortran X3J8]:
   jking@gcg.com                   ! Dr. Joseph King
Session Quality Coord:
   uunet!imsl!lelvis               ! Gary C. Lelvis
Store Rep:
   gwlester@dumbo.cpu.com          ! Gerald Lester
BOF Chairs Coord:
Session Chairs Coord:
   mione@zodiac.rutgers.edu        ! Antonino N. Mione
Chair Public Domain Software Working Group:
SIG Tape Librarian:
   ted@nieland.dayton.oh.us        ! M. Edward Nieland
   nieland@dayfac.cdc.com          ! M. Edward Nieland
SIG Chairman:
   pollizzi@stsci.edu              ! Joseph Pollizzi, III
Chair VAXSET Working Group:
   richon@stsci.edu                ! Joel Richon
Library Committee Rep:
   b35048@anlcmt.cmt.anl.gov       ! Tony Scandora
Former Campground Coord:
Former Vice Chair - Logistics:
Current User Interface User Interest Group (UI UIG) Chair:
   terrazas@eisner.decus.org       ! Michael S. Terrazas
Suite and Reception Coord:
   matt@nrc.com                    ! Matt Variot


Additionally, I beleive that *all* board members can be reached at:
   {username}@eisner.decus.org    where {username} is their last name.

As projects coordinator one of my key tasks is to "listen to the membership" 
and see what services and products the SIG can offer *you*. Please take me up 
on this and feel free to send any wild ideas you may have my way. 

In addition, I am tasked with seeing to it that *you* get the most the SIG can 
provide from your DECUS involvement. If you can't make it to symposia... get 
on-line with DECUServe, or help others by putting some of your software into 
the SIG Tapes, or write newsletter articles. DECUS is not DEC (Digital) and 
US (the leadership) DECUS is *you*!


jmi     jmi@dac.mdcbbs.com    -or-   ivler@eisner.decus.org
These are *my* opinions - not DAC. MDC, DECUS, L&T SIG, UI UIG, et al...

In article <009451A5.83C422A0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU> sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) writes:
>In article <4496@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, tencati@nssdcb.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ron Tencati) writes:

>I don't suppose that you could post Internet addresses for the appropriate
>committee members? Or is DCS not linked into any network?  Or I have to go get
>an audience with SIG leadership first? 

You have had no trouble getting in touch with me, and I am one of those
DECUS leaders (VOLUNTEERS) you seek.  In addition, I was able to get you
some of the documentation you requested, at no small amount of pain, at
1200 baud, on a drain-bamaged GRiD 1101.

>DECUS leadership has not conveyed this discussion to the masses. Or maybe I'm
>wrong, but there's nothing sitting in my mailbox which says "Hello DECUS
>member, these are the issues we are discussing." Do I have to pay more money to
>get onto DECUSERVE to be heard? 

At the moment, yes.  One of the things that is being debated among the
"leadership" is whether or not to make DECUServe no cost to DECUS
members.

>There should be another alternative to entering DECUS leadership other than
>showing up at Symposia. I was quite disturbed that one of the "requirements"
>for being a nominated BoD candidate was to show up at symposia for 3 years
>running. 

There is.  Get involved with the LUGS.  Unfortunately, a LOT of DECUS
work gets done at symposia.  The amount of time it takes to be a DECUS
leader is sometimes daunting.  Try to explain to your boss/wife (maybe
the same?) that you are going to be away at DECUS meetings 4 weeks a
year, and there is more time taken up at home.

>We have several electronic networks. You have access, the UNISIG chair does.
>Why not any of the BoD members ?  How long does it take to electronically post
>minutes to here and comp.os.vms? 

Some do, others don't.  It takes time just to get the meeting minutes
compiled and approved.  The exception (of course) is the hasty
"unofficial" minutes which occasionally appear here and elsewhere.

>You sound bitter. Not everyone should be hanged in effegy. At the same time, if
>DECUS, the body, claims me as a member, I have the right as a member to flame.
>Marshmellows anyone?

"Flaming only generates heat, discussions lead to solutions"

Kurt Reisler (703) 359-6100
============================================================================
UNISIG Chairman, DECUS US Chapter                       | Hadron, Inc.
..!{uunet|sundc|rlgvax|netxcom|decuac}!hadron!klr       | 9990 Lee Highway
Sysop, Fido 109/101 The Bear's Den   (703) 671-0598     | Fairfax, VA 22030

In article <1991Mar4.195334.15166@news.arc.nasa.gov>, 
mcmahon@tgv.com (John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon) writes:

> DECUServe is on the network thanks to the VMSnet working group.  The
> address is  USERNAME@eisner.decus.org.  Someday, I hope to discover who
> "eisner" was.

Dan Lee Eisner was one of the founders of DECUServe, Chair of the RSX SIG,
and one of the best people it has been my priviledge to know.   His death
from cancer in 1987 deprived DECUS of one of its most outstanding leaders.

Dan had an ability to take multiple feuding people and produce a friendly
agreement.   His services as a peacemaker are sorely missed.

Today, we take DECUServe for granted.   However, when Dan and the other
pioneers proposed it to DECUS leadership, it was a hard sell.   Many
people did not want it to happen, and some tried their best to make it
fail.   Dan worked very hard, right up until his death, to make it a
success.   Naming the DECUServe system "EISNER" is a monument not only
to a man, but to the kind of person DECUS needs more of.

His successes went beyond DECUS politics.   In early 1987 when DECUServe
was just getting off the ground, Dan asked me to be a moderator.   One
of the other moderators was a woman I did not get along with at all.
If she and I had to be in the same room, you could practically see the
icicles form in the air.

Dan encouraged me to communicate and cooperate with her, in the interests
of DECUServe.   He succeeded far beyond his wildest dreams (I think).   
On September 3rd, 1988, I married her.

Dan Eisner was my friend and I miss him.      Requiescat In Pace.

---  Alan E. Frisbie                    Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com  (Preferred)
---  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.      or  ...elroy!flying!frisbie
---  4759 Round Top Drive           or  Flying!Frisbie@Elroy.jpl.nasa.gov
---  Los Angeles, CA 90065          or  Frisbie%Flying@oxy.edu
---  (213) 256-2575                 or  ...oxy!flying!frisbie

In article <353.27d533c4@dragon.uucp> cts@dragon.uucp (Charles T. Smith, Jr.) writes:

>One of the biggest problems in dealing with Decus is finding the responsible
>party.  For example, who is responsible for the policy of keeping DCS off the
>net.  I for one would be happy to place a few phone calls.

At a DECUS meeting held this weekend, I was told that DCS "should have
two-way Email access via the InterNet by March 15th".  The person who
was responsible is no longer "with us", and the person who has taken
over just found out what the blockage was, and is removing it.  Of
course, 3/15 is a VMS-timeframe date (:-), which means "real soon now".

I will keep those who lurk in the aether informed.

Kurt Reisler (703) 359-6100
============================================================================
UNISIG Chairman, DECUS US Chapter                       | Hadron, Inc.
..!{uunet|sundc|rlgvax|netxcom|decuac}!hadron!klr       | 9990 Lee Highway
Sysop, Fido 109/101 The Bear's Den   (703) 671-0598     | Fairfax, VA 22030

In article <943@hadron.COM>, klr@hadron.COM (Kurt L. Reisler) writes:
> In article <353.27d533c4@dragon.uucp> cts@dragon.uucp (Charles T. Smith, Jr.) writes:
> 
>>One of the biggest problems in dealing with Decus is finding the responsible
>>party.  For example, who is responsible for the policy of keeping DCS off the
>>net.  I for one would be happy to place a few phone calls.
> 
> At a DECUS meeting held this weekend, I was told that DCS "should have
> two-way Email access via the InterNet by March 15th".  The person who
> was responsible is no longer "with us", and the person who has taken
> over just found out what the blockage was, and is removing it.  Of
> course, 3/15 is a VMS-timeframe date (:-), which means "real soon now".
> 
> I will keep those who lurk in the aether informed.
> 

The Message on DCS in VAX NOTES from the DCS system Manager is putting the 
connection date as in May.

Ted Nieland				nieland_t@kahuna.asd-yf.wpafb.af.mil
Control Data Corporation		nieland@dayfac.cdc.com
(513) 427-6355				ted@nieland.dayton.oh.us

In article <1991Mar13.075425.64@kahuna.asd-yf.wpafb.af.mil> nieland_t@kahuna.asd-yf.wpafb.af.mil writes:
>In article <943@hadron.COM>, klr@hadron.COM (Kurt L. Reisler) writes:
>> 
>> At a DECUS meeting held this weekend, I was told that DCS "should have
>> two-way Email access via the InterNet by March 15th".  The person who
>> was responsible is no longer "with us", and the person who has taken
>> over just found out what the blockage was, and is removing it.  Of
>> course, 3/15 is a VMS-timeframe date (:-), which means "real soon now".
>
>The Message on DCS in VAX NOTES from the DCS system Manager is putting the 
>connection date as in May.
>

That is the "official" connection.  I was told that a "backdoor" through
DECUServe might be available on 15 March.  However, there has been no
follow up, so I guess nothing happened.  I know I would rather be able
to read my DECUS leadership mail and respond to it from my Unix system,
than having to fight my way through VMS and ALL-IN-ONE (BLETCH!).



Kurt Reisler (703) 359-6100
============================================================================
UNISIG Chairman, DECUS US Chapter                       | Hadron, Inc.
..!{uunet|sundc|rlgvax|netxcom|decuac}!hadron!klr       | 9990 Lee Highway
Sysop, Fido 109/101 The Bear's Den   (703) 671-0598     | Fairfax, VA 22030

In article <943@hadron.COM>, klr@hadron.COM (Kurt L. Reisler) writes:
> In article <353.27d533c4@dragon.uucp> cts@dragon.uucp (Charles T. Smith, Jr.) writes:
> 
>>One of the biggest problems in dealing with Decus is finding the responsible
>>party.  For example, who is responsible for the policy of keeping DCS off the
>>net.  I for one would be happy to place a few phone calls.
> 
> At a DECUS meeting held this weekend, I was told that DCS "should have
> two-way Email access via the InterNet by March 15th".  The person who
> was responsible is no longer "with us", and the person who has taken
> over just found out what the blockage was, and is removing it.  Of
> course, 3/15 is a VMS-timeframe date (:-), which means "real soon now".
> 
> I will keep those who lurk in the aether informed.

Well, its 3/15.  

Also, you sure prove my point.  Just who is this responsible person?
Perhaps they have a name?  And a phone number?

In article <376.27e14400@dragon.uucp>, cts@dragon.uucp (Charles T. Smith, Jr.) writes:

#Well, its 3/15.  
#
#Also, you sure prove my point.  Just who is this responsible person?
#Perhaps they have a name?  And a phone number?

This will be a tad long winded since I want to keep two related topics
separate:

1)  E-mail connectivity via UUCP

Currently there is a UUCP link in/out of the DECUServer machine (a.k.a.
eisner.decus.org).  There is a restricted DECnet E-mail capability between
"eisner" and the Leadership machine "topaz".  Currently, people can send mail
out from "topaz", but cannot send it into it.  This is due to old policies that
are being revamped.  It is my opinion that the old "no network connections"
policies for the Leadership VAX are dead, and that everyone wants this to
happen.  It just takes time and manpower.  

Ability to send mail via this route was supposed to be established on 3/15/91.
It did not happen.  I communicated with Dolores Pilitz, who is the DCS system
manager over the weekend and she confirmed that the connection was not
established.  She is shooting for later this week to get it completed.  I'll
ping her again at the end of this week.

2)  Full Internet conectivity for DECUServe and DCS

My understanding is that the circuit has been ordered from NEARnet.  Typically
phone circuits take about 60 days to implement.  Some issues have to be
resolved with the TCP/IP software vendor, so stay tuned for further updates on
that.

And now a word from our sponsor:  I'm a member of DECUS Leadership, and quite
proud of it.  I don't speak for the groups within DECUS who run DCS or
DECUServe.  The preceeding information is based on talking to people who do run
these systems.  Post no bills.

--
John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon    :    MCMAHON@TGV.COM    : TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
TGV, Incorporated            :                       :    T   GGGGGGG  V     V
603 Mission Street           : HAVK (abha) Gur bayl  :    T  G          V   V
Santa Cruz, California 95060 : bcrengvat flfgrz gb   :    T  G    GGGG   V V
408-427-4366 or 800-TGV-3440 : or qrfgeblrq ol znvy  :    T   GGGGGGG     V