🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:34:49 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "Stephan Rose" <nospam@spammer.com> wrote in message
> news:CeydncpTEMK1Y4XanZ2dnUVZ8qPinZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:13:20 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:13hd1p0q7uk3u6d@news.supernews.com...
>>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:12:58 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> 8<
>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.
>>>>>
>>>>> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8<
>>>>
>>>> Linux didn't delete the user's data.. by itself. The user explicitly
>>>> told the installer to wipe out the data.
>>>
>>> Yes we all know that.
>>> What is being disscussed is if the warning messages are suitable for
>>> the intended target users as he didn't understand. If Linux is
>>> intended for people that are computer literate then they are OK and
>>> most such users will only make the odd mistake and will have backupos
>>> anyway. If Linux is going to be installable by the majority of users
>>> then I don't think the messages or install routine are much good.
>>
>> Well then, you are saying that Linux is no good for the majority of
>> users because the installer is no good, right? Because they can't
>> install it right?
>>
>> Well I suppose I can see how much more detailed the windows partition
>> step is.
>>
>> http://hevnikov.com/img/061223-install-vista.png
>>
>> Really descriptive!! The majority of users are REALLY going to know
>> what's going on here! I mean seriously, it couldn't be more clear.
>>
>> And look!!! The warning message!!
>>
>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/shared/images/insight/vista/11-vista.jpg
>>
>> Wait a moment? Microsoft is using the word DATA?!?!
>>
>> So if I now go by your rules which you are applying to the Linux
>> installer, the windows installer (by your rules) is equally unsuitable
>> for the masses. Which if I continue to go by your rules, makes
>> installing Windows equally unsuitable for the masses.
> 
> Why does a discussion about Linux always end up with a Linux is better
> than windows debate?

I didn't say one is better than the other. I simply applied the rules you 
apply to the Ubuntu installer to the Windows installer.

> 
> I agree that it could be easier to install windows.
> 
> However you have to select a partition and then choose to install it
> using *advanced* options before you can format or delete it. A user in
> normal mode doesn't get the options to delete or format partitions and
> installing vista to an existing partition doesn't destroy data.

If, and only if, said partition is an NTFS partition. What if it is an 
Ext3 Linux partition? Seeing how Vista can't be installed on Ext3, this 
would destroy the data on the Ext3 partition!

Or even better, what if it's a FAT32 partition? Vista can't be installed 
on a FAT32 partition either. So there too would be data loss.

> 
> Compare that to Ubuntu where you typically get three tick boxes
> 
> A: use entire disk
> B: use free space
> C: do it manually
> 
> Now if you choose either A or B you get the /same/ warning message just
> before it commits the changes (at least on a single disk machine).

The number of disks is irrelevant and Option C will also give you a 
warning at the end.

> 
> A will delete your data and B will not.. do you not see that it is just
> wrong.

No, I have the intelligence to understand that if I choose my entire disk 
then this means the entire disk and that if I choose free space then this 
means free space.

I also have the intelligence to not make changes that I know are liable 
to affect my entire computer until I understand what the consequences are 
or might be of said changes.

I wasn't trying to get into OS A is better than OS B. I know which is 
better for me and everyone else needs to decide on their own what choice 
is better for them. It's pointless arguing that.

The only thing I am trying to get to is that there is no significant 
difference between the Windows and Ubuntu install mechanism. And that, 
regardless of the OS, a user needs to know what it is they are doing and 
how it will affect their system before they do it.

It's equally easy to screw up a system using either installer if someone 
doesn't know what they are doing.  This is especially true if they 
haven't created a dedicated hard drive or partition for a second OS if 
they choose to dual boot. And if they don't know how to do that and don't 
understand the terms "disk", "whole", "entire", "all data", "partition", 
"everything", then they should probably let a professional technician 
fluent in English handle it.

-- 
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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