🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <4e16kv$5ss@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, garnett@bioserv.compbio.caltech.edu (John Garnett) writes...
>What Linux ISDN card/driver combinations will communicate (via ISDN line)
>with a multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  I want to avoid any solutions that
>will be limited by the speed of the Linux serial port (like the
>Motorola Bitsurfer).  Also, I don't want to go to the expense of installing
>a standalone ISDN/Ethernet bride or router on the Linux side.  What
>I'd like to do is install (inside the Linux box) an internal ISDN card with
>an ISDN driver or an ISDN card that emulates an NE2000 Ethernet card.
> 
>The question is which of the Linux ISDN card/driver combinations (if any)
>best interoperates with the multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  Any contact
>information (WWW sites, phone numbers, etc) for the various vendors is
>welcome.  This solution is to be deployed in Southern California.

Good luck. When it comes to cost, you can get the Pipeline 25 for a lot cheaper
than the P50. Plus you can use it for voice. That way you can drop your POTS
line and save 20 or 30 dollars per month. So the P25 can be the cheapest in the
end.

garnett@bioserv.compbio.caltech.edu (John Garnett) wrote:

>What Linux ISDN card/driver combinations will communicate (via ISDN line)
>with a multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  I want to avoid any solutions that
>will be limited by the speed of the Linux serial port (like the
>Motorola Bitsurfer).  Also, I don't want to go to the expense of installing
>a standalone ISDN/Ethernet bride or router on the Linux side.  What
>I'd like to do is install (inside the Linux box) an internal ISDN card with
>an ISDN driver or an ISDN card that emulates an NE2000 Ethernet card.

>The question is which of the Linux ISDN card/driver combinations (if any)
>best interoperates with the multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  Any contact
>information (WWW sites, phone numbers, etc) for the various vendors is
>welcome.  This solution is to be deployed in Southern California.

I would suggest you look at the Lion Datapump MTA modem this has the
raw TCP and Telnet modes with the built in PPPsync modes and works
with Linux and Freebsd.

Look at the WWW http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/lion/
for further info.

Have a nice day.

Jeff Harris

garnett@bioserv.compbio.caltech.edu (John Garnett) writes:

>What I'd like to do is install (inside the Linux box) an internal
>ISDN card with an ISDN driver or an ISDN card that emulates an NE2000
>Ethernet card.

Joel Katz wrote a driver for the Combinet (now Cisco) 1000 card.....

-- 
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& no one will talk to a host that's close...........(v)301 56 LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead........vr vr vr vr.................20915-1433

garnett@bioserv.compbio.caltech.edu (John Garnett) wrote:
>What Linux ISDN card/driver combinations will communicate (via ISDN line)
>with a multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  I want to avoid any solutions that
>will be limited by the speed of the Linux serial port (like the
>Motorola Bitsurfer).  Also, I don't want to go to the expense of installing
>a standalone ISDN/Ethernet bride or router on the Linux side.  What
>I'd like to do is install (inside the Linux box) an internal ISDN card with
>an ISDN driver or an ISDN card that emulates an NE2000 Ethernet card.
>
>The question is which of the Linux ISDN card/driver combinations (if any)
>best interoperates with the multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  Any contact
>information (WWW sites, phone numbers, etc) for the various vendors is
>welcome.  This solution is to be deployed in Southern California.
>
>Thanks,

It would be great to get the DIGI Datafire to work on a Linux box. It has
compression/NT-1/2B channels and costs less than $300. Does ANYONE have a
running example of this?

-- 
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In article <23JAN199600503041@eisner.decus.org>,
Matt Holdrege <holdrege@eisner.decus.org> wrote:
>In article <4e16kv$5ss@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, garnett@bioserv.compbio.caltech.edu (John Garnett) writes...
>>What Linux ISDN card/driver combinations will communicate (via ISDN line)
>>with a multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?

I'm currently using a bitsurfer to communicate with a Pipeline 50 under
Linux...

>>I want to avoid any solutions that
>>will be limited by the speed of the Linux serial port (like the
>>Motorola Bitsurfer).  Also, I don't want to go to the expense of installing

Limited by the speed of the Linux serial port?  Why?  I mean, we're not talking
T1 speeds here, we're talking 56/64K or possibly 115/128K.  These ARE speeds
that can be handled by the serial ports with the exception of 128 (which
you'd have to run at 115.2K).  I've been running my 64K ISDN line at 115K
for months now with 0 problems.

>>a standalone ISDN/Ethernet bride or router on the Linux side.  What
>>I'd like to do is install (inside the Linux box) an internal ISDN card with
>>an ISDN driver or an ISDN card that emulates an NE2000 Ethernet card.

And you expect that option to be any cheaper than a Pipeline?

>>The question is which of the Linux ISDN card/driver combinations (if any)
>>best interoperates with the multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  Any contact

The best option for talking to a Pipeline is another Pipeline.  I spent
6 hours on the phone with my ISP when they switched me over to the P50.
They had a bitch of a time getting it to communicate properly, then
getting it to route properly.

>Good luck. When it comes to cost, you can get the Pipeline 25 for a lot cheaper
>than the P50. Plus you can use it for voice. That way you can drop your POTS

I was ready to order a P25 to get things working, but it was really the
P50 that was misbehaving, not the PPP software on my end (IMHO).  The P50
had VERY little in the way of debugging tools...  The problem for me
would have been that I would have needed to get an extra ethernet
board and set up a seperate ENet segment to run the Pipeline on because
of my firewall situation.  I guess with newer Linux kernels I could have
tried the aliasing, but that's still Alpha code.

Sean
-- 
"We just wanted to give the band a little more thrust than most other bands."
        - Donald Fagen's reply to why they chose the band name 'Steely Dan'
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo@tummy.com>
URL: <http://www.tummy.com/xvscan>  HP-UX/Linux/FreeBSD X11 scanning software.

In article <310635dd.0@sylvia.tummy.com>, jafo@ariel.tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) writes...
>Limited by the speed of the Linux serial port?  Why?  I mean, we're not talking
>T1 speeds here, we're talking 56/64K or possibly 115/128K.  These ARE speeds
>that can be handled by the serial ports with the exception of 128 (which
>you'd have to run at 115.2K).  I've been running my 64K ISDN line at 115K
>for months now with 0 problems.

That's if you have the new UART. Those stuck with the older UART's are limited
to 38400. And if you are going to buy a new serial board for speed, why not get
an $90 Ethernet card instead?

>I was ready to order a P25 to get things working, but it was really the
>P50 that was misbehaving, not the PPP software on my end (IMHO).  The P50
>had VERY little in the way of debugging tools...  The problem for me
>would have been that I would have needed to get an extra ethernet
>board and set up a seperate ENet segment to run the Pipeline on because
>of my firewall situation.  I guess with newer Linux kernels I could have
>tried the aliasing, but that's still Alpha code.

The Pipeline do have debugging tools. The problem is that the manuals don't
talk about them. If you are familiar with Ascend, you'll know to enter esc -
esc = to get to the debug mode.

John Garnett wrote:
> 
> What Linux ISDN card/driver combinations will communicate (via ISDN line)
> with a multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  I want to avoid any solutions that
> will be limited by the speed of the Linux serial port (like the
> Motorola Bitsurfer).

I'm not sure I understand here.  If you install an ISDN card
on the PC's bus, then it has nothing to do with serial ports
(or are you simply trying to avoid being deluged with replies
about ISDN equipment hanging off the serial ports?)

While ISDN is ISDN (sort of), everyone uses different compression
schemes, and occasionally has other extras - none of which
interoperate.  SO, while any ISDN interface should talk to any
other (at least in the same country) they will be definitely
be communicating at teh lowest common denominator.

>Also, I don't want to go to the expense of installing
> a standalone ISDN/Ethernet bride or router on the Linux side.  What

An ethernet bride.  Now *that's* a scary thought!
While it's a non inexpensive solution, the bet
solution - at least until recently - was also for
most of us the only solution (unless we wanted to
write drivers): an ethernet card hooked to an external
box such as the P50.  Even a low-end 3com card will
handle ISDN rates with no problem.

> I'd like to do is install (inside the Linux box) an internal ISDN card with
> an ISDN driver or an ISDN card that emulates an NE2000 Ethernet card,

First you have to find out what works at all.  I know that
as of early this month that list was still extremely short -
there were maybe 1 or 2 cards listed as having Linux drivers,
and I believe those were still experimental.  Look in the latest
hardware FAQ/howto for further information.


> The question is which of the Linux ISDN card/driver combinations (if any)
> best interoperates with the multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  Any contact
> information (WWW sites, phone numbers, etc) for the various vendors is
> welcome.

Again, assuming there is anything that will work at all,
nothing will communicate nearly as well with an Ascend as
an Ascend - at least to date.  I'm really hoping Ascend will
start selling cards, or license the technology to someone to
do so - soon!

---------------------------------------------------
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meo@schoneal.com               Schober O'Neal, Inc.
1011 Stobaugh St, Suite A / Austin, TX / 78757-1529
1-512-451-5531 (v)               (f) 1-512-451-0513
             http://www.schoneal.com/

In article <310AA0C2.57F17138@schoneal.com> Miles O'Neal <meo@schoneal.com> writes:

> ...
>While ISDN is ISDN (sort of), everyone uses different compression
>schemes, and occasionally has other extras - none of which
>interoperate.  SO, while any ISDN interface should talk to any
>other (at least in the same country) they will be definitely
>be communicating at teh lowest common denominator.

That is an overstatement.  The three currently most popular PPP
compression schemes are Stac Electronic's LZS, Predictor, and BSD
Compress:

    - LZS is prefered by box vendors because Stac has very good salespeople
	and because Stac makes LZS chips that make it easier to build
	boxes with many ports that compress.  There have been compatibility
	problems among LZS implementations.  There is a new version
	of the LZS CCP draft that many hope will solve those problems.

    - Predictor interoperates, but does not perform very well.  It may
	have patent problems.

    - BSD Compress also interoperats well.  It is in at least one
	popular freeware PPP implementation, I think including the one
	that has been ported to Linux.  BSD Compress has the problem
	of the Unisys LZW patent, but at least freeware is ok with it.
	As far as I know, also UNIX workstation vendors.


> ...
>nothing will communicate nearly as well with an Ascend as
>an Ascend - at least to date.  I'm really hoping Ascend will
>start selling cards, or license the technology to someone to
>do so - soon!

So you want Ascend to license their bugs to someone else?  How much do
you suppose other vendors will pay for them?  Seriously, the only reasons
for such interoperability problems are bugs.  (Everyone has such bugs
at first.)  Eventually, I bet Ascend's LZS will interoperate with everyone
else's.  Of course, unless Stac give away free licenses for the freeware
PPP implementations, or unless Ascend buys an LZW license, they won't
compress when talking to each other.

For the rest of PPP, on what grounds do you say that only Ascend boxes
can talk to Ascend boxes?  As far as I can see, Ascend is no worse than
the other vendors with shipping products that my code talks to.  ("My"
code actually belongs to a UNIX vendor.)


Vernon Schryver    vjs@rhyolite.com

In article <310635dd.0@sylvia.tummy.com>, jafo@ariel.tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) writes:
|> Limited by the speed of the Linux serial port?  Why?  I mean, we're not talking
|> T1 speeds here, we're talking 56/64K or possibly 115/128K.  These ARE speeds
|> that can be handled by the serial ports with the exception of 128 (which
|> you'd have to run at 115.2K).  I've been running my 64K ISDN line at 115K
|> for months now with 0 problems.

  The rate on the ISDN line is sync, i.e., without start/stop bits,
while the serial port is async, which requires one start and one stop
bit per character.  This implies your serial port can transfer
115,200/10 or 15,200 bytes/second, while the phone line transfers
128,000/8 or 16,000 bytes/second.  You loose 800 bytes/second.

  And how can you take advantage of compression when your serial port
already runs slower than the bit rate?  You cannot.  On my 1B Pipeline
50 connection I see ftp rates in excess of 7,000 bytes/second, so
compression helps by, say, at least 10%.

  That's why some of us talk about the serial port limiting throughput.

|> Sean

    Bob
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Miles O'Neal <meo@schoneal.com> writes:

| John Garnett wrote:
| > 
| > What Linux ISDN card/driver combinations will communicate (via ISDN line)
| > with a multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  I want to avoid any solutions that
| > will be limited by the speed of the Linux serial port (like the
| > Motorola Bitsurfer).
|
| I'm not sure I understand here.  If you install an ISDN card
| on the PC's bus, then it has nothing to do with serial ports
| (or are you simply trying to avoid being deluged with replies
| about ISDN equipment hanging off the serial ports?)

Sounds to me like he wants to avoid serial ports period (and hence any
responses for serial port based boxes do not apply) for the reason of
the speed limitations.  He seems focused on a bus card solution and is
disregarding an ethernet solution.


| While ISDN is ISDN (sort of), everyone uses different compression
| schemes, and occasionally has other extras - none of which
| interoperate.  SO, while any ISDN interface should talk to any
| other (at least in the same country) they will be definitely
| be communicating at teh lowest common denominator.

Do any of them use V.42bis compression?  Or do they all roll their own?


| >Also, I don't want to go to the expense of installing
| > a standalone ISDN/Ethernet bride or router on the Linux side.  What
|
| An ethernet bride.  Now *that's* a scary thought!
| While it's a non inexpensive solution, the bet
| solution - at least until recently - was also for
| most of us the only solution (unless we wanted to
| write drivers): an ethernet card hooked to an external
| box such as the P50.  Even a low-end 3com card will
| handle ISDN rates with no problem.

Writing drivers is no big deal ... *IF* the vender is not being an ...hole
about providing specs.  Any bus cards out there with specs for drivers?


| > I'd like to do is install (inside the Linux box) an internal ISDN card with
| > an ISDN driver or an ISDN card that emulates an NE2000 Ethernet card,
|
| First you have to find out what works at all.  I know that
| as of early this month that list was still extremely short -
| there were maybe 1 or 2 cards listed as having Linux drivers,
| and I believe those were still experimental.  Look in the latest
| hardware FAQ/howto for further information.

Any that emulate common ethernet or serial port interfacing automatically
have Linux drivers.  But if it's a new interface, just making the driver
specs available will result in a driver for Linux at no cost, because there
are plenty of driver writers working with Linux (remember, Linux has a larger
system development team than the paid staff of all commercial UNIXs combined).

| > The question is which of the Linux ISDN card/driver combinations (if any)
| > best interoperates with the multiuser Ascend Pipeline 50?  Any contact
| > information (WWW sites, phone numbers, etc) for the various vendors is
| > welcome.
|
| Again, assuming there is anything that will work at all,
| nothing will communicate nearly as well with an Ascend as
| an Ascend - at least to date.  I'm really hoping Ascend will
| start selling cards, or license the technology to someone to
| do so - soon!

Or someone should start establishing some open standards.
-- 
Phil Howard KA9WGN      +-------------------------------------------------+
Unix/Internet/Sys Admin |    When freedom is outlawed....                 |
CLR/Fast-Tax            |            ....only outlaws will be free!       |
phil@clr.com            +-------------------------------------------------+

In article <4eipll$hc1@superb.csc.ti.com>,
Bob Peterson <peterson@csc.ti.com> wrote:
[snip]
>  The rate on the ISDN line is sync, i.e., without start/stop bits,
>while the serial port is async, which requires one start and one stop
>bit per character.  This implies your serial port can transfer
>115,200/10 or 15,200 bytes/second, while the phone line transfers
>128,000/8 or 16,000 bytes/second.  You loose 800 bytes/second.

I assume that was an oops.  115,200/10 is 11,520, so you are actually
losing 4480 bytes/second or about 28% of the theoretical bandwidth,
which seems pretty significant.

ted
-- 
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    Telematics Intl., Inc.   Ft. Lauderdale, FL