🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <Pine.3.05.9301212245.A4381-b100000@Ra.MsState.Edu> <pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us> writes:
>1. What are the possibilities of PCGeos (I'm a little fuzzy on the correct
>terminology) becoming a real operating system, like DOS, OS2, or the Mac

I think the question you're asking is this:  Will I someday be able to run
PC/GEOS on my PC without booting DOS first?  The answer (according to
Brian Dougherty, GeoWorks CEO) is yes -- eventually.  Not in v2.0, but
eventually.

The only DOS system calls that PC/GEOS uses involve the file system
(locating files, deleting files, formatting disks, etc.).  PC/GEOS
handles all other normal functions of a "real operating system" itself
(and much better than DOS does, IMHO).

>2. Can PCGeos fonts be gotten from ftp sites or be converted from fonts
>elsewhere and how? A better question is: can and how can I get more fonts
>for GeoWorks without spending a lot of money (a poor college student, I am)?

There's a whole passle of PC/GEOS fonts in the GEOWORKS directory at
Simtel.  Try ftp-ing to wuarchive.wustl.edu (mirrors/msdos/geoworks
directory) or oak.oakland.edu (pub/msdos/geoworks directory).

>3. What other fonts can be converted to GeoWorks fonts?

Version 1.2 and above include a utility for converting from the URW
font format to PC/GEOS format.  There are commercial font-conversion
utilities you can use (sorry, I can't remember any titles.  Allfonts,
maybe?) to convert from various other formats to one of these.

>4. Has there been any reports from GeoWorks of specific new functions to
>be added to any of the components in 2.0?

As soon as I can find a couple hours I'll update the FAQ to reflect
the latest GEOS 2 info that I've heard on this group.  The current
version of the FAQ has some info on new features.  You can get a copy
of it by anonymous ftp to pit-manager.mit.edu, in the
/pub/usenet/news.answers subdirectory, using the archive name
pcgeos-faq.

>5. .... Is there any wordprocessor that can convert to or
>from GeoWrite files?  

No.  Most word processors, including GeoWrite, can import/export plain
ASCII text, but I don't know of any that handle GeoWrite files.  In
version 2 GeoWrite should have the capability to import/export a
number of different WP formats.  WordPerfect is the only one I've
heard mentioned specifically, but I'm hoping for MS-Word support as
well.

(No, I'm not a MS fan, but the folks who decide on our departmental
standards are.  We use MS Word, Excel, Project, Powerpoint, and
possibly Mail.  We even have a few NT nuts who get very excited when
they talk about how NT will have *multithreading*!  Ooh!  Aah!  But I
digress :-).

>6. ....  I know
>this list is for those who do not have access to the newsgroup.  Are the
>original messages being sent to that newsgroup before this list?  I have
>not been able to find the newsgroup here.

It's not unheard of to see a reply to an article before you see the
original article, even when you're just dealing with Usenet news.
Having a bidirectional gateway to a mailing list just complicates
matters that much more.


-- 
   Doug Taylor                         |   Nothing real can be threatened.
   The Ohio State University           |   Nothing unreal exists.
   doug-taylor+@osu.edu                |            - A Course in Miracles

>>>>> On Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:35:22 GMT, "Lee A. Mohon" <lam4@Ra.MsState.Edu> said:

Lee> 1. What are the possibilities of PCGeos (I'm a little fuzzy on the correct
Lee> terminology) becoming a real operating system, like DOS, OS2, or the Mac
Lee> geos?  The reason I bring this up is that the articles I have read on
Lee> Geoworks for the pentops don't say anything about it running on any other
Lee> platform.  I assume that it is the only o.s. on the pentops.  If this is
Lee> so, then could the same thing be done for pcs?  I would think not (or at
Lee> least not easily), or else why would it not be done?  

One reason not to do it is that even those of us who use geos still
like to use some dos programs, too.  So if geos replaced the operating
system entirely how would we be able to use, say, Quattro Pro SE?

I figure geos will become a true operating system (i.e., no longer
rely on dos for any services) when they decide that it's users no
longer will use dos for anything.  
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771       

In article <Pine.3.05.9301212245.A4381-b100000@Ra.MsState.Edu>, "Lee A. Mohon" <lam4@Ra.MsState.Edu> writes:
> To any and all:
>  Got a few questions for any who know the answers,  would just like to
> make an educated guess or simply would like to give IMOs.
> 
> 1. What are the possibilities of PCGeos (I'm a little fuzzy on the correct
> terminology) becoming a real operating system, like DOS, OS2, or the Mac
> geos? 

I wouldn't call DOS an operating system. If you take a course on OS
Design I think you will find DOS fitting into a slot called a "Disk
Loading Executive". Enough quibbling, the point is that by combining
Geoworks with DOS or Windows with DOS you get an OS. Meeting the 
general definition of an OS (Memory Mgt., File System, I/O handeling, 
Resource Scheduling, etc.). If you put a file system and device driver
hooks into Geoworks I believe you would have an OS.

 
> 2. Can PCGeos fonts be gotten from ftp sites or be converted from fonts
> elsewhere and how? A better question is: can and how can I get more fonts
> for GeoWorks without spending a lot of money (a poor college student, I am)?
> 
> 3. What other fonts can be converted to GeoWorks fonts?

If Geoworks makes this info freely available you might find an entrprising
developer here and there who will write conversion tools. A poor student
looking for an interesting hack to do. :-)
 
> 5. I recently looked at the latest release of Ami Pro for Windoze. (It is
> impressive when compared to Wordperfect 5.1.  However, it lacks the ease
> of use when compared to GeoWrite.) I noticed that it lacks the capability
> to convert GeoWrite files. Why? (I think I already know the answer to
> this; I can think of two reasons myself, but I thought I would see what
> came down the pike.) Is there any wordprocessor that can convert to or
> from GeoWrite files?  

See the comment after #3. Geoworks dosn't have the market share that 
some other un-named products do. Therefore its difficult to attract 
the kind of companies with large development budgets. They put their 
cash where it buys them the most. My experience is that Geoworks
isn't really interested in talking to one man shows like myself 
(ie. work I do on my own time). Yet the small to medium sized companies 
are the ones who build companies around new products. I like 
the product, but it would be nice if I had and assembler and
C++ compiler to work with it.


...........................................................................
Tony Dean - Consultant  	Cap Gemini America : Currently
                 		residing @ US WEST Communications
e-mail: tdean@eatdust.uswest.com
I like assembler and I vote!
...........................................................................

lam4@Ra.MsState.Edu (Lee A. Mohon) writes:

>To any and all:
> Got a few questions for any who know the answers,  would just like to
>make an educated guess or simply would like to give IMOs.

Oh goody!  I was wondering what to do for the next 5 minutes... :)

>1. What are the possibilities of PCGeos (I'm a little fuzzy on the correct
>terminology) becoming a real operating system, like DOS, OS2, or the Mac
>geos?  The reason I bring this up is that the articles I have read on
>Geoworks for the pentops don't say anything about it running on any other
>platform.  I assume that it is the only o.s. on the pentops.  If this is
>so, then could the same thing be done for pcs?  I would think not (or at
>least not easily), or else why would it not be done?  

Brian (head of GeoWorks) has stated that eventually, GEOS will not require
DOS - that is to say, it will be a bootable OS, which is what your 
definition of "real operating system" means.  It's already got its own 
kernal, and only uses DOS for some filesystem procedures, so it's well on
the way.

>2. Can PCGeos fonts be gotten from ftp sites or be converted from fonts
>elsewhere and how? A better question is: can and how can I get more fonts
>for GeoWorks without spending a lot of money (a poor college student, I am)?

You can FTP PCGeos fonts from mir.eco.utexas.edu in either /pub/geos or
/pub/geos/ecst, I forget which... Or from wuarchive.wustl.edu (or your local
SIMTEL-20 mirror site) in /mirrors/msdos/geoworks or some such.

>3. What other fonts can be converted to GeoWorks fonts?

I think this is covered in the manual somewhere... Fonts from URW can be, and
I think there are some fonts from... MicroLogic, maybe??? that can be.  I do
not have any of them, so I don't remember the company name.

>4. Has there been any reports from GeoWorks of specific new functions to
>be added to any of the components in 2.0?

I don't know how specific you want, but you should take a look at the FAQ
files (next time they're posted here) - they have some information on it.
256 color support will be added.  My "educated guess" (read: logical
deduction) is that GeoDraw will include a few more drawing tools (though
still not necessarily a bitmap tool, it should include a vector-based
(math-based) tool for arcs, but don't quote me on that) and handle more
import/export options... GeoWrite will include tons of new stuff - my
guesses are search/replace, text-around-graphics support.  The last word
I heard said it would have something like _four times_ as many features.
That's scary.  Where will they put the menus? :)

>5. I recently looked at the latest release of Ami Pro for Windoze. (It is
>impressive when compared to Wordperfect 5.1.  However, it lacks the ease
>of use when compared to GeoWrite.) I noticed that it lacks the capability
>to convert GeoWrite files. Why? (I think I already know the answer to
>this; I can think of two reasons myself, but I thought I would see what
>came down the pike.) Is there any wordprocessor that can convert to or
>from GeoWrite files?  

Most major-brand word processors don't really aknowledge the existence of
GEOS yet.  GeoWrite itself will probably have quite a bit of import/export
options in v2.0.

>6. I asked earlier, but haven't seen a reply (maybe I sent the message to
>Timbuctu, altho' I thought I was replying to a message) to why I have been
>receiving replies to messages before I get the original message.  I know
>this list is for those who do not have access to the newsgroup.  Are the
>original messages being sent to that newsgroup before this list?  I have
>not been able to find the newsgroup here.

Replies before original messages - the net is a strange entity, when you
link 1,000,000+ computers together, all of them running at different speeds
and checking for new messages at different time intervals, you can get some
really odd situations.  I've seen situations where people posted a message
in several parts, and the parts got to me either in reverse order, or in 
no order at all.

-- 
birchall@pilot.njin.net, shag@glia.biostr.washington.edu, birchall@njin.bitnet
  Operator of ShagNet - Rutgers/NJIN dialup access for Burlington County, NJ
     Happy and informative user of a PPI 14400 FaxModem and GeoWorks Pro
       Editor of the Queensryche E-mail Digest - "Screaming in Digital"

In article <Pine.3.05.9301212245.A4381-b100000@Ra.MsState.Edu>
<pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us> writes:
[...]
>1. What are the possibilities of PCGeos (I'm a little fuzzy on the correct
>terminology) becoming a real operating system, like DOS, OS2, or the Mac
>geos?

GEOS *is* a real OS.  If you're definition of OS doesn't handle that then
please post your assumptions/view/whatever about what you believe
disqualifies it.

>  The reason I bring this up is that the articles I have read on
>Geoworks for the pentops don't say anything about it running on any other
>platform.  I assume that it is the only o.s. on the pentops.  If this is
>so, then could the same thing be done for pcs?  I would think not (or at
>least not easily), or else why would it not be done?  

The announcements made at CES in the last couple of weeks have made it
clear (I thought) that Pen/GEOS is the underlying system on the Zoomer
(Tandy/Casio/Palm/GeoWorks) palmtop.  And as I have stated previously,
Pen/GEOS *is* GEOS.  I guess I'm really asking for you to clarify you're
question. :-)

As far a palmtop OSs there are (in no particular order and since I'm doing
this off the top of my head don't take this as gospel :-): Pen/Windows,
PenPoint, whatever the hell Apple does for whatever the Newton turns out to
be, Pen/GEOS, Pen DOS, and at least one other that I can't recall.

[...]
>6. I asked earlier, but haven't seen a reply (maybe I sent the message to
>Timbuctu, altho' I thought I was replying to a message) to why I have been
>receiving replies to messages before I get the original message.  I know
>this list is for those who do not have access to the newsgroup.  Are the
>original messages being sent to that newsgroup before this list?  I have
>not been able to find the newsgroup here.

This can be caused by many things.  Often it's due to the relative
locations of the nodes involved and how/when/where different sites
propagate news.

Hope this helps,
		John
		johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU

P.S.	I speak for myself.  GeoWorks speaks for itself.

mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch) writes:

>One reason not to do it is that even those of us who use geos still
>like to use some dos programs, too.  So if geos replaced the operating
>system entirely how would we be able to use, say, Quattro Pro SE?

>I figure geos will become a true operating system (i.e., no longer
>rely on dos for any services) when they decide that it's users no
>longer will use dos for anything.  

This might tie in with why GEOS won't (ever) multitask DOS programs.
Brian or someone else terribly high up in the company has stated that
they believe multitasking of DOS applications will become increasingly
unpopular in the next few years.  I'm inclined to agree with them, in
part based on the increasing availability of Windows apps.  Of course,
when Windows first came out, it had few native apps worth mentioning,
and didn't do such a great job of multitasking DOS ones either!

The goal here is to develop a GEOS version of any app worth using.  This
might sound like an awful lot of work, but considering that GEOS apps
are smaller, faster, and more elegant than even their equivalent DOS
apps, it's not a bad idea.

So, in answer to the question - you'd just use Quattro Pro for GEOS
instead of Quattro Pro for DOS. :)  

I think GEOS will stop requiring DOS when there are at least two big-name
products available in each application segment.  If someone has the
option of using GeoWrite 2.0, WordPerfect for GEOS, or Ami Pro for GEOS,
there would be relatively little reason to use a DOS word processor, for
example.  Once all segments of applications are represented, there will
be no reason to keep DOS around.  Since GeoWorks and Digital Research
get along well, they'll probably just take some DR-DOS code and rewrite
it in Object Assembler (ooh, a smaller, faster, better DOS! :) and drop
it in as a library... BOOT.GEO or something.

Of course, by the time that happens (v3.0 or 4.0 of GEOS, I'd guess), we
should also have a "DOS-emulating CLI-in-a-window" toy to play with, so 
any insignificant apps that haven't yet been ported could perhaps still be
used (in a window, of course).

The gypsy's magic 8-ball has spoken, that'll be $5, please.

-Shag

-- 
birchall@pilot.njin.net, shag@glia.biostr.washington.edu, birchall@njin.bitnet
  Operator of ShagNet - Rutgers/NJIN dialup access for Burlington County, NJ
     Happy and informative user of a PPI 14400 FaxModem and GeoWorks Pro
       Editor of the Queensryche E-mail Digest - "Screaming in Digital"

Someone at MsState (I forget who) wrote:

>>1. What are the possibilities of PCGeos (I'm a little fuzzy on the correct
>>terminology) becoming a real operating system, like DOS, OS2, or the Mac
>>geos?

johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell) responded:

>GEOS *is* a real OS.  If you're definition of OS doesn't handle that then
>please post your assumptions/view/whatever about what you believe
>disqualifies it.

I believe the writer considers a "real" OS to be a bootable OS.  As you may
have noticed, they didn't include Windoze on their list, since it is not
bootable either.

Or, maybe GEOS _is_ bootable, and if John told us, he'd have to kill us
with a paintball gun.  (very slow and painful way to die, but colorful.)

-Shag

-- 
birchall@pilot.njin.net, shag@glia.biostr.washington.edu, birchall@njin.bitnet
  Operator of ShagNet - Rutgers/NJIN dialup access for Burlington County, NJ
     Happy and informative user of a PPI 14400 FaxModem and GeoWorks Pro
       Editor of the Queensryche E-mail Digest - "Screaming in Digital"

johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell) writes:

>>...  I assume that it is the only o.s. on the pentops.  If this is
>>so, then could the same thing be done for pcs?  I would think not (or at
>>least not easily), or else why would it not be done?  

>...Pen/GEOS is the underlying system on the Zoomer...
>Pen/GEOS *is* GEOS.  I guess I'm really asking for you to clarify you're
>question. :-)

I think the question here is "if the Zoomer boots up directly into GEOS,
and does not run DOS under it, why can't I do the same on my desktop
system?"  IMO, it's a good question... I suspect the answer is going to
have something to do with a boot ROM or some similar technology, but that's
just a typical Wild Guess From Shag, since I'm still waiting for GEOS to
send me my Non-Conjecturing Agreement.

-Shag (mild-mannered ditch-digger by day, software-sadist by night)

-- 
birchall@pilot.njin.net, shag@glia.biostr.washington.edu, birchall@njin.bitnet
  Operator of ShagNet - Rutgers/NJIN dialup access for Burlington County, NJ
     Happy and informative user of a PPI 14400 FaxModem and GeoWorks Pro
       Editor of the Queensryche E-mail Digest - "Screaming in Digital"